As we pause this morning at 0918 to honor those we lost on the USS THRESHER 51 years ago, please take this opportunity to reflect on the importance of the work we do here at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. The Navy learned a great deal about submarine design, construction, processes and procedures from THRESHER. These lessons are what created the SUBSAFE program. It is our duty to uphold the highest standards in our work, from material procurement, to work, testing, training, audits and certification. Every day our performance reflects our personal dedication and commitment to the legacy of the USS THRESHER. These are the words from our Shipyard Commander The sinking of the Thresher is a big deal around here I was just a little boy when it happened back in April 1963 and I still remember....read about the subsafe program, I feel they did not die without leaving something that was developed because of this terrible incident. On Eternal Patrol . Subby http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
Here here!! - The loss of any personal in peace time is sad - At least it seems this crew's loss was not a complete waste. Hard to believe thats 50 years ago........feeling old
Amen! I hope the men lost at sea found loving embrace with God and the Lord. Terrible tragedy that hopefully will never be repeated.
I caught a snippet of an interview with an actor talking about a new film coming up. Apparently his mother shredded him when he described the film as a period piece lol
Even in peacetime, submarining is risky business. It's worse in wartime. In the roflstomp that was the US submarine war against Japan, 20% of the US boats are on eternal patrol. Compare that to the 10% losses a badly beat-up infantry corps takes or the 15% losses suffered by the Eighth Air Force. Compare that to the 96% loss rate of the German submarines or the fact that the Japanese sub that torpedoed the USS Indianapolis was one of two Japanese subs left in operation in 1945.
I'm not taking anything away from the submariners, but I take issue with your comment. After the allies retained air supremacy over Germany, casualty rates of bomber crews declined significantly which lowered the overall casualty rate for bomber crews taking into account the entirety of WW2. In the context of a specific period of the war, there was no more dangerous job in all of the U.S. military than for those who flew the original twenty-five mission bomber tour in 1942-1943... only 35% survived, 65% were KIA. The British bomber crews fared even worse. Less than 10% of British bomber crews who were in action at the start of the war in the European theater of operations (WW2), were alive to talk about it at the end of the war. Obviously Soviet statistics aren't as well documented, but I've no doubt those statistics would be horrific. Among the Axis, the German U-Boat crews no doubt suffered the most documented casualty rates of any occupation, less than 5% of U-Boat crews survived the entirety of the war. Talking strictly in terms of U.S. casualty rates, as I say, bomber crews of the 8th Air Force in Europe suffered losses between 1942 - 1943, that were staggering.
Taxcutter says: I quoted the Strategic Bombing Survey. 15% covers fighters and bombers from late 42 to V-E day. Either way, flying and submarining are both more dangerous (overall) than the infantry.
As a former military aviator, you could not pay me enough to be in a steel tube under tons of water pressure for 6 months at a time with sleeping quarters a few yards from a nuclear reactor. I would imagine they have virtually no privacy either, and I'm not a "people" person to that extent. I have the utmost respect for submariners, they are a breed apart. Quiet professionals, most of what they do and where they go, is classified. No braggadocio among them, you'll know very quickly if someone is a Marine or combat infantry, they'll tell you and of course any one else is just a waste of space to them. Submariners, not so much...I highly respect that community.
I think it was the sheer stress the guys were under. From the stories I have heard, surviving depth charge attacks taught you a lot about your God and your sphincter at the same time.
There's no relief either. Even a bomber crew in WW2 had down time, and an opportunity to drink away the stress. On a sub, you live it 24 hours a day, at least while you're out at sea.
Taxcutter says: Indeed so. You can spot a fighter pilot a mile away. Cocky to beat the band. Goes with the breed of cat you have to be to strap on a jet fighter. Sub drivers are different. While every bit as bold as fighter jocks, you gotta waterboard it out of them. They don't refer to the submarine branch as the "Silent Service" because the boats are quiet. (They are so quiet that whales - with nature's best sonar - routinely bumble into US submarines.) That comes from their history. In the early part of World War Two the Navy told a Congressman that the Japanese did not set their depth charges for under 200 feet deep so the US subs dodged them by simply diving deeper. Well the congresscritter told a newspaperman, who published that. Obviously the IJN got wind of it and began setting depth charges for greater depths and a number of subs are now on eternal patrol. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKMEl4HU0fA You think today's submariners need the big brass ones? Ever been to the sub museum at Pearl Harbor? Crawl through the USS Bowfin and tell us about breeds of cat. Imagine three months in that thing. As of 1990 they still maintained that boat well enough to take out and submerge it to periscope depth once a year. Also check out the photo wall at the Royal Hawaiian. A Who's Who of World War Two submariners. BTW, submarines - even boomers that displace as much water as an early battleship - are always boats.
I got to spend half a day on a Los Angeles class attack sub when I was in High School. The men that serve on those are a special breed and have my respect. When I enlisted I looked at subs for a brief second because of signing bonuses. I went AF instead (weather forecasting). I remembered that tour of that sub and just decided against the money. I have never regretted that
Well a problem being that once an infantry unit of say battalion, regimental or division sized takes certain level of casualties as said it becomes combat ineffective and has to be pulled out of action. This percentage is not as great as one expects. Smaller units of course can sometimes take extremely high losses and still fight. A second is that a badly mauled infantry unit quickly has access (normally) to hospital and other support units when they are pulled out of action. So while the infantry is now out of action, the presence of such support units is a boon to the individual soldier.
Taxcutter says: Quite true, but air war and submarine warfare grinds on without respite. In World War Two many infantry formations never saw heavy combat.
Bumping On this day in 1963 at 0918 am the USS Thresher SSN 593 was lost while on sea trials. Aboard were 129 brave souls. Let us take a moment today to honor those brave men who gave their lives in service of our great country. Their sacrifice will never be forgotten.
Out of well over 100 Japanese destroyer captains at the beginning of WW2 only ONE would survive the war.
By August 14th, 1942 the unofficial order was that U.S. Marines would not take prisoners on the battlefield in the heat of the battle. I suppose they just adopted the same policies as the Japs. It seems that the NVA and VC had the same policy south of the 17th parallel during the Vietnam War. That's why surrendering or being captured wasn't an option for American Marines and soldiers.
I remember reading about the Thresher. (I'll be 70 very soon). At first, they weren't sure what happened. They did an extensive study and pieced it together. As I faced the draft, I considered my options. I would have loved to be in a nuclear sub, but I figured for every guy in a nuclear sub, probably 10 are in a supply ship or oiler. I would've liked to be a fighter pilot, but figured for every fighter pilot there were 10-12 guys who check the tire pressure, work on the engine, etc. The Army? No distinction there - could be in Germany or Korea or Kansas for the whole time. BUT - If I went in the Marines, I felt I'd be just about guaranteed of seeing action in Vietnam. Only thing I was right about....
All you had to do was to sign up for a six year tour of duty and you would have found yourself "swinging with the wing" as a Marine airdale or as a sea going bell hop.