True - it is more to do with the culture surrounding guns that leads to the gun violence - which is why I am so opposed to the idiot internet memes and NRA slogans that support a destructive culture
Over 50% of the murder in the US is committed by blacks. Do you really think NRA slogans and internet memes contribute to that?
Yes Or are you suggesting that increased tendency to violence is inherent in some races and not in others?
Really and the other 50% - are they Martians?? Why are they not to blame also? The NRA has run some highly successful disinformation campaigns on behalf of the armaments industry - one of it's biggest contributors
Claiming the NRA has a place in US gun crimes is hilarious. So much so, you didn't even bother to provide evidence, but instead are going off about them like a fire-breathing dragon. It's actually because of hostile liberals as yourself that I joined the NRA. Blacks are 13% of the US population and commit over 50% of murder. Alas, you are unwilling to think about this, it being to uncomfortable, so for whatever odd reason, you blame the NRA. That's a new one, liberals usually just blame society for high black crime rates. What supposed "disinformation campaigns" has the NRA been launching? The only disinformation I've seen is coming from the Bloomberg/Mothers Against Guns/Brady/Joyce crowd. They make claims they don't even bother providing a source for. These are the ugly facts of US gun murders.
The NRA lobbies (ie: buys) politicians very successfully to ensure that no system is put in place that might reduce the ability of criminals to obtain firearms, by scaring fearful citizens into believing this will somehow translate into guns being unavailable to the lawful. Why? Because the bulk of the NRA's funding comes from the firearms industry (manufacturers and dealers). It's the same tactic the tabacco industry attempted to use, except the tobacco industry was defeated by pure scientific evidence - so the NRA has repeatedly ensured that this type of research does not take place in relation to firearms. Are they responsible for firearms deaths? No. Do they enable it in order to line their pockets? Absolutely.
Where do you get this crap from? We have all kinds of laws in place. Far more laws are in place for gun purchases than alcohol, even though alcohol kills far more people annually. Democrats killed their own gun bill and then had the audacity to say the NRA did it. This is HILARIOUS. This is not an NRA puppet show. This is hilarious conspiracy theorizing.
Ooh, another conspiracy theory. So when the FBI compiles it's victim surveys in which the victim describes their attacker, it's a conspiracy of some kind that when black victims point out black perpetrators nearly every single time, it's all a racist lie. Here's the problem with liberalism: Blaming whitey is the only acceptable response when it comes to things like high black crime rates. It means that either 1) The higher crime rates will be denied and called a myth constructed by white racism which is what you just did, if even indirectly, or 2) The high black crime rates are real but blacks only commit more crime due to white racism. What I've always wanted to know from people who believe such things is why is it not racist to knee-jerk blame white people for high black crime rates?
Oh! There is evidence aplenty but I have a rule - I only provide evidence if my opponent also does - and since you showed no inclination to bolster the statements that "50% are due to blacks" then I did not see a reason to reply with references But there is no clearer and well documented evidence of the NRA interference and attempt to suppress facts and spread misinformation than the NRA attempt to shut down the entire CDC. \ http://www.businessinsider.com.au/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1
So you have a rule that if you make an assertion first without evidence and someone contradicts your claim later on, you cry foul and demand that person present the evidence first. Sorry, but here's the proof you made the first claim, not I. Actually I said OVER 50% of murders in the US are committed by blacks, and since the statement was made after you made a claim without sources, my statement has nothing to do with your decision to not include any sources for your statements. That's what you call a cop-out. My conversation with you has gotten off to a great start. As far as what you have provided thus far, there is nothing in that article that states anything about a "disinformation campaign," but rather a claim of a conspiracy theory in which the NRA is apparently ordering around the Republican Party and thus are going about drying up research money on guns. Now that your article says that no real data can be come about on the effect of guns on society, it certainly hasn't stopped you and your political allies from making all kinds of scary claims and demanding all kinds of bans. You specifically cited they were making a "disinformation campaign," in other words that they were spreading lies. You have yet to produce this. And since you claim to be so concerned about US violent crimes, it's rather odd you didn't look up the data yourself already. It is here: Homicide Trends in the United States, 1990-2008 Note specifically page 11. On page 12 it reads, While two-thirds of drug-related homicides were committed by black offenders (65.6%), black offenders were less likely to be involved in sex-related killings (43.4%), workplace homicides, (25.8%) or homicides of elders age 65 or older (41.9%) compared to their overall involvement as homicide offenders (52.5%). Note that blacks are 13% of the US population. Also note on page 13 that most interracial murders are committed by blacks.
Sure, we make it illegal to sell firearms to a convicted felon, but then don't want background checks done... The number of laws means nothing if we make those laws unenforceable. Really? Is it a conspiracy theory to say the NRA blocks gun research? https://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2013/02/gun-violence.aspx http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us/26guns.html?_r=0 http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nra-congress-stymied-cdc-gun-research-budget/ Is it a conspiracy theory to say that the NRA is primarily funded by gun manufacturers and dealers? http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/n...cted-into-the-nra-golden-ring-of-freedom.aspx http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2008/beretta-group-pledges-$1-million-to-ben.aspx?s=&st=&ps= http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/news-from-nra-ila/2012/4-april/sturm,-ruger-company-raises-over-$12-million-to-benefit-the-nra-institute-for-legislative-action.aspx?s=%22Lead%22&st=&ps= http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1 Is it a conspiracy theory to say that the NRA buys politicians? http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-money-congress-republicans-2012-12 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nra-spent-15-million-defeat-obama-2012-article-1.1254996 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/nra-congress/ http://www.followthemoney.org/database/topcontributor.phtml?u=1854&y=0 Let me anticipate your response... I assume it will be ""
So you have this borderline-fanatical belief system in which you haven't lifted a single finger to research into and thus cannot defend. Source #1: Alcohol-Related Deaths Kill More Than AIDS, TB Or Violence, WHO Reports Actually the 2.5 million from alcohol here is grossly understated, since nearly 90,000 in the US alone die annually from alcohol abuse. Source #2: Fact Sheets- Alcohol Use and Health "There are approximately 88,000 deaths attributable to excessive alcohol use each year in the United States.1 This makes excessive alcohol use the 3rd leading lifestyle-related cause of death for the nation.2 Excessive alcohol use is responsible for 2.5 million years of potential life lost (YPLL) annually, or an average of about 30 years of potential life lost for each death.1 In 2006, there were more than 1.2 million emergency room visits and 2.7 million physician office visits due to excessive drinking.3 The economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2006 were estimated at $223.5 billion.3" Source #3: Gun Control Issues, Public Health, and Safety "In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012)." ..... Still waiting for the NRA "disinformation campaign." - - - Updated - - - It's late and I have to work tomorrow. I'll get back to that a little later.
Hah! Too easy “And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…” Arco Eddie Izzard quotes (British stand-up Comedian and Actor. b.1962) http://en.thinkexist.com/quotation/and_the_national_rifle_association_says_that-/341229.html Or on a more serious note .Two weeks ago, after a dozen more people were shot dead at the Washington Navy Yard by a 34-year-old man with a security clearance who heard voices in his head. Wayne La Pierre, the head of the NRA, once again trotted out his worn-out slogan that “the only thing to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun.” At odds with virtually every chief of police in every city in the country, La Pierre continues the drumbeat for his view that more guns is better, that if we all carried we’d all be better off because the good guys will win, and I’m tired of it. This stream of bird seed from him and others like him is simply making us numb to the reality of violence that is all around us. ................. Last week, as the apparent result of a road-rage incident, two men, both described by others as “good guys” shot it out at a car wash in Ionia. Both carried concealed weapons permits, one of them is believed to have owned up to a hundred guns. Both of them are dead and I’m wondering if Wayne La Pierre could help us out and tell us, which one was the good guy? Does it make a difference, or is this what happens when too many good guys, who live their lives in fear, carry guns for protection against other fearful good guys who carry guns for protection? This is madness. http://www.wwmt.com/news/features/t...-just-dont-work-anymore-69.shtml#.UvxFw5XNvX4 Yep!! And I note this I s not the only claim made by my opposition that was without foundation or referencing - so two can play at that game You see what you want to see - I will continue to see evidence of suppression of research Btw - NRA involvement with and advertising for the armaments industry http://www.businessinsider.com.au/t...ry-to-become-their-top-crisis-pr-firm-2012-12 Amnesty International have caught the NRA telling fibs http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/pres...nter-nra-distortions-about-global-arms-treaty And there is more .e National Rifle Association portrays itself as an organization that represents “4 million members” who simply love the Second Amendment. The truth is much more murky. In reality, the NRA is composed of half a dozen legal entities; some designed to run undisclosed attack ads in political campaigns, others to lobby and collect tens of millions in undisclosed, tax-deductible sums. This power has only been enhanced in the era of Citizens United, with large GOP donors in the last election reportedly funneling money to the NRA simply to use the group as a brand to pummel Democrats with nasty ads. (As The Huffington Post’s Peter Stone reported, even the Koch network now provides an undisclosed amount to the NRA.) Despite the grassroots façade, there is much evidence to suggest that corporations that profit from unregulated gun use are propping up the NRA’s activities, much like how the tobacco lobby secretly funded “Smokers Rights’” fronts and libertarian anti-tax groups, or how polluters currently finance much of the climate change skepticism movement. http://www.thenation.com/blog/171776/does-nra-represent-gun-manufacturers-or-gun-owners# While gun enthusiasts frequently deny being paranoid, or drawn to guns to “prove” their manhood, Mark Murrman at Mother Jones discovered gun manufacturers disagree with their customers about their motives. He collected a series of gun ads, and showed that they often riffed on anxieties about masculinity or right-wing paranoias. Bushmaster, which makes one of the guns that Adam Lanza used to snuff out the lives of 27 people, ran ads in Maxim with copy reading, “Consider your man card reissued.” Remington ran an ad claiming that private gun owners constituted an “army” that politicians should fear. These kinds of ads increase gun sales, but at the cost of perpetuating the toxic culture in which guns proliferate as a panacea for anxious masculinity and overblown fears that one has to protect oneself from government breaking down your door or criminals invading your home. There’s two reasons to support legislations banning gun advertising. One, it’s a strategy that has been tried before with a different deadly product—cigarettes—which makes it an easy sell and relatively protected against court tests. Two, it would put the National Rifle Association (NRA) on the defense, exposing their true nature as an industry lobby and not as a rights organization. http://prospect.org/article/putting-nra-defense And since you claim to be so concerned about US violent crimes, it's rather odd you didn't look up the data yourself already. It is here: Homicide Trends in the United States, 1990-2008 See - this is the thing - I don't see "blacks" as "less" I see people People who do not deserve to die
Please point out where I "blamed whitey", or made any reference to "white racism". I simply stated that there is a significant difference between being committing a crime and being convicted for committing that crime... http://projects.wsj.com/murderdata/#view=all Since you believe it is reasonable to make hasty generalizations on the basis of statistics related to convicted criminals, it is interesting to note that 0.07% of inmates are atheists, 28.7% are Protestants, 24% are Catholics, 5.5% are Muslims, and 3.1% American Indians. http://natskep.com/only-0-07-of-pri...g-to-a-2013-federal-bureau-of-prisons-report/ Using your logic, given that 16.1% of the population is "unaffiliated" with any religion, and 1.6% of the population define themselves as atheists (as per http://www.pewforum.org/files/2008/06/report2-religious-landscape-appendix.pdf), it is clear that belief in God is the better measurement for criminality...
You go ahead and sleep on it. Given that I've clearly illustrated that nothing I said was a "conspiracy theory" - despite your eagerness to dismiss it as such - you may need some time to consider how you'll backpedal out of this one.
Most murders are intraracial. Blacks are murder victims much more often than whites due to that. Per capita, there is no doubt that blacks commit more murder. There are more black murder defendents than white ones: http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=4845 See table 5 in above. 12% of murder defendents are white. 57% are black. (data between 1990 and 2009, analysis completed in 2013)
Let's look at the assertions you are making here, starting with the first two: A) Most murders are interracial. B) Blacks are the most frequent victims.If both of these are true, then non-blacks would be the most frequent murderers, targetting blacks. However, as you pointed out: C) there are more black murder defendents than white onesAs this is true, and you've already illustrated that it's most frequently non-blacks committing murders, I believe you're strengthening my position there is a significant difference between committing a crime and being convicted of a crime.
I will give you this much - at least you looked something up Which was partly my intent because using the same reasoning you could easily prove that heart attacks cause more deaths than firearms. But the fast food industry has not managed to block research funding on the cause of heart attacks the way that the NRA has blocked research on gun related deaths Pity that the same analysis is not given to the links both Logician and I are providing instead of simple out of hand dismissal - - - Updated - - - Aren't they all people?
We have all kinds of laws like that, such as laws against felons voting. Guess what stopping felons voting would partly entail? Yes - voter ID. You ready? I've already responded to these claims. 1) That's got nothing to do with the claim of "disinformation." That is an anti-NRA laundry list. 2) The NRA "buys" politicians no more than Greenpeace does.
