Legalize Pot – Reduce Crime?

Do you have evidence to support your claim that any significant percentage of pot users will stop smoking pot when it is legalized and move to illegal laced pot instead?

During prohibition, millions used illegal alcohol. After it was repealed, there was and is some small portion that use illegal moonshine, but this analogy doesn't support anything like what you are claiming will happen with "laced pot".

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Stronger illegal substances are already available. If pot smokers wanted to use them, they already would be using them.

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So why aren't tens of millions of pot smokers using these harder drugs that are already available instead?

 

yeah that just hasn't happened elsewhere, pot use actually declined in the netherlands with decriminalization, I think part of the alure with young kids is doing something they're not supposed to, once its okay the excitement/cool factor lessens...

 

Do you really believe this?

I love good beer and wine- and I drink them both for their taste and the alcohol affect.

But if I am doing shots of Tequila, its not because Tequila tastes 'good'.

Look at the shelves of cheap gin, vodka, bourbon that line your local liquor store- those are not there because people enjoy the flavor of cheap gin.

People who want to get high can buy cheap liquor legally now. And in Washington and Colorado they can buy pot legally too.

 

No, just as you have none they wont. Human nature suggests they would though....

Moonshine does not taste good, I do not think anybody is surprised few drink it. Ever have a Moon shine Martini? LOL

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As the competition grows better and better product will become available,,that's Capitalism. Also those substances were not as easy to get, they will be now though.

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They are, and have been. Some just moved on to different drugs altogether.....

 

Speaking of crime i ll tell you this : here in Greece smokes are very expensive and 95% of the price is tax, it is highly more likely to arrest people from smuggling cigarettes rather than hashish ... with the note that because of the climate hash grows on its own in national gardens and municipal parks.

I support legalization for two reasons : one - adults are suppose to be responsible for their actions so they get to chose what they consume even if we speak about banned in Europe US grown apples , alcohol , THC or psilocybine . Reason two - THC has relaxing effects and can help people on the verge of snapping, i very much prefer persons in deep anxiety to have a (legal) way of chilling our rather than planning school or shipyard shootings.

 

Sure I do,,why lace it when all you have to do is drink through the night and get as drunk as you want. Some like Vodka, some like Gin, others like mixed drinks. Drinking is more of a social thing. Some wont have anything but wine.

I agree with that, but most times you drink what you like, what taste good.

Those are there because it's what they can afford. If they could afford Top shelf they would drink it...

Yeah?,,,and? what does that mean? Listen, I am not against legalization if that's what you think, all I am saying is that it wont cut crime. If it does, it would be minor...I believe the crime argument was used just to get it passed.

I have not made up my mind as far as legalization goes, it's a wait and see thing with me. I worry about the kids, and where our culture is going, but basically I'm a freedom type of guy...I hate regulation of most things.

 

As I said,,I love freedom it's more the kids I worry about. An adult should be able to have just about any drug he wants, I have no problem with that.

 

Kids will try anything they get their hand into legal or illegal ,prohibitions are like asking to be violated.
I start smoking at the age of 15 and since until very recently there was not any age limit in alcohol consumption we get to drink at school parties, i got wasted once or twice before realizing that overdose was just ruining my entertainment . At 17 i started "island hoping" in summertime and i saw with my own eyes Americans of my age drinking to insanity , fell into the sea and drawn ; where i am going with that ? in practice it is better to start learning about bad habits while you are under some parental control rather than as a young adults that answers to none.

I am not saying that kids should smoke pot i am saying that they will do anyway .

 

It would take more than a anecdotal story to convince me it is not a real danger to our kids. I understand your point, and can readily see why you feel the way you do, but for every story you give me, I could give you three opposing stories back,,follow? The fact is it would be more available, less of a legal problem, and practically an endorsement to do drugs.
Early drug use [In my opinion] is the number one reason for addiction and introduction to other drugs. Hell it would eventually be harder to buy cigarettes than pot. yet we inhale both into the lungs,,and why? agenda....
http://www.lung.org/associations/states/colorado/tobacco/marijuana.html

Tobacco vs. Marijuana

Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains cancer-causing chemicals. There are 33 cancer-causing chemicals contained in marijuana. Marijuana smoke also deposits tar into the lungs. In fact, when equal amounts of marijuana and tobacco are smoked, marijuana deposits four times as much tar into the lungs. This is because marijuana joints are un-filtered and often more deeply inhaled than cigarettes.

Marijuana smoke is also an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems experienced by people who smoke tobacco. These include coughing and phlegm production on most days, wheezing, bronchitis, and greater risk of lung infection.

Odd, but the same people that want to slap every regulation possible on tobacco are the same people that endorse legalizing Pot. I wonder sometimes if Tobacco and Pot are not the problem, but control is.

 

It's not really relevant what's contained within combusted plant matter - just as tobacco is a vehicle for nicotine, so is cannabis a vehicle for THC and CBN. If you vaporize the nicotine in tobacco the dire health effects are significantly reduced, as you're no longer inhaling the burnt plant matter, which is really most of the issue. Same goes for cannabis. Vaproize or make edibles, save the bong/joint/blunt for special occasions. A vape is much more efficient anyway - much less of the THC is burnt off.

As for it being a danger to your kids - yeah. Just like alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, sugar, HFCS, electricity, tall buildings, violent video games, pornography, etc. It's your responsibility as a parent to keep them away from that sort of thing, I don't see why my liberty should be restricted. It's not like weed is hard to get at the moment anyway. It's much easier to get as a kid now than alcohol or tobacco - why? Because dealers rarely check ID. Unless they look under 14 they're not going to turn them away, and even then...

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On tobacco I am in favor of abolishing all regulation whatsoever. No plain packaging, no taxation, no restrictions on public use, no license required for sale, no surgeon general's warning, restaurants and other properties should be able to set their own policy on smoking, including indoors.

So I guess you'd call me a tobacco radical, not the other way around

 

It may sound like an anecdotal story but this is actually how my generation grew up.

Availability is not an issue since weed is a hard plant that grows on its own everywhere ( i have found a female plant inside a municipal pot just in front of townhall) , having to deal with the underworld to get it is . This is where your introduction part sticks , after we came back from vacations dealers were replacing weed with heroine in a " i don't have hash why don't you try this?" manner , you see where this goes? if we could buy our joints from a store this wouldn't be the case.

I am not saying that hash is good and everyone should do it and of course there is use and abuse , drinking a couple of beers with friends doesn't make you a drunkard and it doesn't make your liver rot , we are not going to die from smoking pot 10 times a year . Statistics show that around 50% of civilians have tried weed at least once till the age of 25, how many of them become "potheads" ? i guess not many.

Anything can become an addiction ,my brother is addicted to hookers ( legal here) and all his money goes to them , my parents are addicted to religion and spend most of their day cooking for the poor & praying but neither god or prostitution have detrimental effects to their personality or society as a whole; why the rare occasion where a soft drug becomes a habit should be penalized ?

No it is not odd , start smoking tobacco was the worst thing i have ever done but i do not regret enjoying weed. I would accept to be locked in a prison if this will stop me from smoking cigarettes but for weed it would be just silly .

 

You see, that does not work with the Government, if it did they would not bust chops on cigarettes. There is no way you will get everybody to smoke Tobacco from a Bong [or whatever] . Their argument is the Hospital Bills it causes,,follow? So, the same Government that is killing the Tobacco trade is now going to legalize pot, which does the same thing to the lungs and medical bills. So,,,,,,,,,,,,WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING?
My cigarettes bad, your Pot good? It's straight up BULL!!
It's an agenda thing pure and simple, not on your part,,,,theirs!

Look, no matter what you say it's ANOTHER problem for them and ANOTHER danger. I'm not stuck on the argument, but like I said it's really my only concern on the matter, other than that I'm not that up tight about legalization.

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We think alike....

 

I'm surprised that you have this attitude because the opposite seems true to me. Cannabis is by no means a single product, there are varying strains all with their different characteristics. Sure, it all ends in the same effect, but that's true for alcohol also. Close to pure sativas are completely different to close to pure indicas, in the same way that a wheat beer tastes different to a pilsner.

In any case, taste is pretty irrelevant.

Same with cannabis. If you could afford frosty Afghan kush you'd go for it over generic schwag filled with stems.

That's agreeable. I think cannabis advocates talk it up beyond all reason to make it a populist movement. While cannabis surely does have some medical effects (it's quite a pleasing painkiller, for example), there's no denying that the medical cannabis system has been abused to no end. It's really an unjustifiable intermediary step. Legalize it then people can use it for whatever use they like.

It's one of those issues left and right have back to front imo. The left should have the same attitude they do toward tobacco, the right should have the same attitude they have toward firearms.

That's an attitude with potential. The government has no business regulating your health, that's your business and yours alone. The question, I think, solely resolves around whether behaviors that are non-coercive in themselves but have the potential to lead to coercion are abhorrent. Personally I think not. The answer is quite obvious from the perspective of government, they don't deal with individuals, they deal with statistics and collectives.

Damn right, but I'd ask you to not base your opinion on what the left thinks. Tobacco too should be legal and unregulated.

I don't disagree that it's another danger, I just think the question we should be asking is a little more general, and should be indifferent to the current set of laws. Cannabis being another danger doesn't change the question - we've got to be consistent. Either the argument holds for the rest of the dangers, or it holds for none of them, or you're arguing for some point where the danger becomes too great. I don't think either leads to prohibition.

 

It's VERY ODD,,,The Government claims my smoking raises the Hospital cost, but Pot doesn't? It's totally a contradiction,,,totally! There is no argument to that,,none. We are not talking just about your pot smoking, but everyone. We are not talking about just you if you get addicted to something else, but anybody. What about the cost of addiction to the country?

If they legalize pot then they should stop with all this cigarette nonsense. They wont though, because they are BOTH agenda driven, and by the SAME people. The same ones [not all] that want to control pot and legalize it are the same ones [not all] that want to take your smoking rights away,,it's called CONTROL!, it's called AGENDA!

 

Seems rational though...

Crime equals recorded arrest. Pot is much easier to detect and harder to transport than most illegal drugs. Take away pot and you take away lots of easy bust.

By the very fact that pot is unfairly demonized it becomes a gateway to illegal activity that many would never consider otherwise. When I was much younger I knew many pot dealers who would never consider other illegal behavior, but I also met plenty of young smokers who once they got used to the idea of breaking the law one way had no problem breaking it another. Its a process called desensitization. (I can't quote a study on this, its just an intuitive observation.)

Marijuana freed from the taint of illegality is a pretty peaceful drug, no more addictive than alcohol and has a sedative effect on most users. It can be ingested or smoked and its detrimental health effects are few for occasional users. Habitual use has its problems as with any drug, and regular users need to be aware of their own level of use to avoid it having a negative effect on their lives.

Because of the war on drugs some people will always have a negative view. My own parents believe using any mood altering chemical (including legal ones) is immoral because of their religion. But decriminalization nationwide would have the same effect on crime, to a lesser degree, that ending prohibition did.

 

But why should this have any effect on your opinion? Screw what leftists think. That's their problem.

If you think tobacco and cannabis should be unregulated or less severely so, then that's all that matters. Holding an opinion for the sake of opposing someone else's seems pretty out there to me.

Smoking raises the cost of MY healthcare. I never asked the government to steal from some to pay for my care. If I do myself harm I should have to reap the consequences in the form of increased healthcare costs. I have met many a leftist opposed to cannabis legalization for that very reason - it complicates their utopian healthcare system.

A very balanced post, thank you.

I have a lot of respect for people who have ethical problems with the consumption of drugs, and so limit their use without forcing everyone else into the same position.

 

Ending marijuana prohibition appears to be an issue that enjoys support from both sides of the partisan divide nowadays.

 

I couldn't care less about what the government says and i don't care about agendas.
I am a chain smoker and i burn over 50 cigs per day , yes my health is affected . It is impossible to smoke as much weed plus you don't get to inhale all the chemicals from cig paper ( i use a pipe but i cannot smoke tobacco in it ).

You don't get addicted to weed , some people pass through a phase and i knew people who got into it smoking 5 joints a day... 5 not 50.

I presented a personal stance on MY addiction, as a smoker i would never ask for anyone to not smoke in my presence inside closed rooms or the hospital . The topic is not tobacco but getting arrested and worse over a silly law .

 

It enjoys support from both sides of the grassroots. It's vehemently opposed by both sides of the establishment.

That hasn't been my experience.

 

There have actually been quite a few mainstream politicians, Democrat and Republican, who have come out in support of ending marijuana prohibition in recent years.

Lifting the prohibition is now opposed primarily by those who profit from marijuana being illegal.

 

You do not have to smoke 50 joints a day to get Lung Cancer from Pot, look at the Link I gave you it has the same Cancer causing ingredients. You may never get cancer from it, another person may. Everybody is different, I suspect it's a gene thing as well. However they can hardly point a finger at one and not the other, it's not only factual concerning the ingredients but common sense. Pot should carry the same warnings they post on cigarettes, perhaps they will.

You can become mentally addicted to any mind altering drug, as far as physically I imagine time and testing will tell. Now that it is to be legalized I would imagine more studies will be done.

As I have said, my only concern was the children. Personally I have a wait and see attitude with it's legalization, I'm not flipping out over it though. The reference to cigarettes was to show how political it's legalization is. When you have the same people pushing one, yet admonishing the other [when both have the same health problem attached Scientifically] then the entire thing becomes very suspect.

I respect your personal experience, but not all people are the same.

 

I do not care what they say, I care what they do [Is that way out there?]. I would have little desire to support their stance on pot as long as they continue to harass me on cigarettes. Their stance on cigarettes is pure bunk, it's just an agenda and a way to tax us. They are proving this with their push to legalize Pot.

This is exactly what I mean, even some on the left oppose it for health reasons, so WHY are they legalizing it? Why isn't the left just as opposed to pot as they are cigarettes? All of a sudden our health and med bills does not matter?, or is it because they can just get away with this absurd double standard?
If they want to legalize Pot, then I want all the cigarette bands, excessive tax's and harassment to stop. So, it is not what they think I care about, it's what they do...

 

Maybe the Aussie thing is silly grass like marijuana ? to be frank even if you smoke it all day 24hours are not enough to roll 50 joints of hash .

The cancer reference is invalid , EU banned US made apples for containing carcinogenics and there are so many other dangerous stuff like toys for children, combustion engine fumes, toxic waste that ends up in rivers or fertilizer in our water that focusing on smoking is just state hypocrisy .

Psychological addiction is true but there are no withdrawal effects , it is like video gaming ... you don't get the chills when you are missing your PC/console . I am testifying group experience here oh and by the way weed provides some relief when you are stopping other rally addictive drugs .

Yes it is political because big tobacco companies see weed as an alternative to their monopoly (you can grow enough for your personal consumption in your apartment) and because parties are concerned about the vote of conservative civilians who just hate progress .
One can provide equal or stronger arguments why Mohammad is right

I don't think it is only my personal experience , there are millions of occasional or social weed smokers/eaters that greatly outnumber the habitual users .

As a bottom note politicians only care about one thing : getting (re)elected , the rest is just literature.

 

What's the significance of 50 joints?

All I know is, when I cease use I get anxiety, insomnia, loss of appetite, and cravings. I feel tired as (*)(*)(*)(*) in the day. Whether that's psychological or not is irrelevant to me - it sucks ass.

 

I think that pot should be regulated exactly like cigarettes and alcohol.

Yes put warnings on it. Yes restrict sales to youth. Yes restrict advertising. Yes do not allow smoking where people are eating.

That said- as a non-smoker- I think that the prohibitions against cigarette smoking are going too far, and should be reined in. The purpose was accomplished several laws ago and now it is just the anti-smoking fanatics who are just as fanatical as the anti-pot fanatics.