Christians Murdering Muslims

gosateizm Google it.

People could practice their religion at home or inside buildings but at schools and universities and eveyrwhere else in public it was not allowed. The state advocated and taught ATHEISM.

Next why don't you educate yourself on the Chinese Cultural Revolution under Mao where religion was actively abolished and worship sites were destroyed in the name of state atheism. Over 50 million people died under those regimes.

After all of that learn about what happened to religions (Judaism, Christianity etc) under the Nazis. They were outlawed, persecuted or coopted and twisted by the Nazis ala the attemted take over of the Protestant churches that ultimately failed.

The monumental ignorance of atheists who deny the damage their philosophy has done while at the same time decrying the damage that religion has done is the epitome of hypocrisy and ignorance. If you are going to blame philosophy for the evils of society then at least be consistent.

No matter what God or philosophy anyone follows all wars and conflicts boil down to fear, power and resources.........that is it. EVERY conflict has its roots in those three things.

 

you've missed the point completely. once again, I'm talking about populaces who choose atheism, no matter what sort of govt they have. this is an ENTIRELY different thing than a despotic regime imposing something resembling atheism on a religious populace. and both the Chinese and the Russian populaces were very religious when these things were happening. before, during, and after.

the problem here is that some theists (whether you are one or not is beside the point) do whatever they can to avoid confronting the reality of 'atheist majority' nations because it makes a lie of their dogma. most do this by pointing at what they think is an atheist nation, but is in fact a highly religious one. they could not possibly do more harm to their own position than to point out how easy it is for a despotic regime to arise when the populace quakes in fear of authority (a feature of highly religious societies). they do even more harm by highlighting the fact that in atheist majority societies (the very places they've worked so hard to 'hide'), despotic regimes have enormous trouble gaining traction. the people, emancipated from childlike subservience to authority, just will not stand for that kind of thing.

 

Christianity was chosen for the masses under the Roman Empire just as Islam was chosen for the masses under Mohammed and his progeny. Outside of the Puritans and later on Quakers and some others very few populations can claim they actually chose their religion. Overwhelmingly they are the result of hierarchical organization. Even in the case of missionaries such as the Jesuits all they did was replace on philosophy for another.

I am sick of Atheists whitewashing their history and constantly ripping on religion as the source of all conflict but turning a blind eye to the despotism or Atheistic philosophies which have had far more people die under their watch than any religion and in fact all religions combined. In the end as I said it all boils down to fear, power and resources. Blaming conflict on anything other than that is just stupid.

 

I don't 'blame' anything on anyone, in regards to regimes and power bases. they're ALL terrible, when despotism is involved. I'm talking here of the very new phenomenon of nations in which the majority of the populace are atheist. that these countries are doing very well - considerably better, and in many cases, massively better - than the rest of the world is no secret, but some theists try to divert attention from this fact by shouting about old regimes. I understand it completely - after all, if you've been taught that godless societies are necessarily bad, you don't want Norway making a liar of dear old mom & dad. And you certainly don't want highly religious societies demonstrating how flawed they can be in tolerating despotism.

 

If they are doing well it has nothing to do with being atheist. It has everything to do with not having an authoritarian regime in power and for following classical liberal philosophies for the most part. We do agree on that at least. My main complaint is that many athiests constantly cry and whine about the evils of religion but when you bring up actual Athiest regimes the response is "Well that is different.....that doesn't count"

The US happens to enjoy one of the highest rates of freedom according to political science rankings and yet at the same time the US is one of the most religious countries on earth. The US also leads the world or is very high ranking in quality of life aspects and that despite having a highly diverse population which the countries you mention don't have to deal with. Going by statistics the countries with the highest degrees of freedom are Protestant/nontraditional countries ie the Nordic countries alongside the US. Following behind are the Catholic countries and in the rear are Islamic countries which are for the most part authortarian regimes.

The single biggest problem with an Athiestic regime is that it denies natural rights. I don't care whether or not they actually exist or not. What matters is that the Consitution or whatever central document is used specifies that the rights of the citizens come from something OTHER than the government. It is insanity to leave the ultimate power in the hands of other men. I don't care if the Constitution says that rights are granted by Martians....so long as no single ruler or oligarchy can take them away via abusing government authority. Even an athiest should want something higher than man as the final arbitar.

 

they don't have authoritarian regimes because they are emancipated peoples. whether this emancipation is a result of education and science (along with classical liberalism etc), is probably unprovable, but the fact remains that the less god a place has, the better it gets. this is, again, POPULACES, not governments (regimes).

and once again, I don't defend any atheist despotic regimes - like I said, they're all vile. what's important to note is that they only arise in populaces where subservience (ie, religion) is the norm. this is probably what atheists are trying to say - but possibly saying it badly. despots just cannot gain ground when the PEOPLE are emancipated enough to demand the best for themselves. but they can and do gain ground when people are so cowed by imposed subservience to some religion or other, that they will tolerate pretty much anything. they're so accustomed to asking 'how high?', when someone in authority says 'jump', that it's open slather for any crazy with a campaign budget. try that in a place like Australia, and the answer is likely to be a belly laugh, followed by 'go (*)(*)(*)(*) yourself' or words to that effect.

 

Oh, I get it now .. lol .. sorry thought you were completely off the subject matter.

Isn't it supposed to be fire next time?

 

it's not a contest, but in a contest of who has done the most harm in the name of God or No God.... atheist vs theists.. theists wins for the most harm done, that is for sure

 

20 million Stalin, 25 million Mao, 2 million Pol Pot, North Korea's state atheism/personality cult, Nazi Germany. Sorry if you are going by numbers the atheist regimes win hands down.

 

Nazi Germany was Christian.... they still are a majority Christian Country even to this day

by the numbers theists win hands down, that is why they are the majority... they killed off all the competition.... covert or kill....

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Nazi Germany was an atheist regime. They attempted to take over the Protestant churches in Germany at the time and twist their ideologies to promote Nazism. The end game was to eliminate religion entirely from Germany.

There is nothing more dangerous than a government who believes that they themselves are the highest authority and that is precisely what you get when atheists are in charge. Atheist make great scientists and philosophers but historically they have been horrible leaders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/13/w...s-hitler-s-forces-planned-destroy-german.html

In the 1920's, as they battled for power, the Nazis realized that the churches in overwhelmingly Christian Germany needed to be neutralized before they would get anywhere. Two-thirds of German Christians were Protestants, belonging to one of 28 regional factions of the German Evangelical Church. Most of the rest were Roman Catholics. On one level, the Nazis saw an advantage. In tumultuous post-World War I Germany, the Christian churches ''had long been associated with conservative ways of thought, which meant that they tended to agree with the National Socialists in their authoritarianism, their attacks on Socialism and Communism, and in their campaign against the Versailles treaty'' that had ended World War I with a bitterly resentful Germany.

But there was a dilemma for Hitler. While conservatives, the Christian churches ''could not be reconciled with the principle of racism, with a foreign policy of unlimited aggressive warfare, or with a domestic policy involving the complete subservience of Church to State.'' Given that these were the fundamental underpinnings of the Nazi regime, ''conflict was inevitable,'' the summary states. It came, as Nazi power surged in the late 1920's toward national domination in the early 30's.

According to Baldur von Schirach, the Nazi leader of the German youth corps that would later be known as the Hitler Youth, ''the destruction of Christianity was explicitly recognized as a purpose of the National Socialist movement'' from the beginning, though ''considerations of expedience made it impossible'' for the movement to adopt this radical stance officially until it had consolidated power, the outline says.

Attracted by the strategic value inherent in the churches' ''historic mission of conservative social discipline,'' the Nazis simply lied and made deals with the churches while planning a ''slow and cautious policy of gradual encroachment'' to eliminate Christianity.

The prosecution investigators describe this as a criminal conspiracy. ''This general plan had been established even before the rise of the Nazis to power,'' the outline says. ''It apparently came out of discussions among an inner circle'' comprised of Hitler himself, other top Nazi leaders including the propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbels, and a collection of party enforcers and veteran beer-hall agitators.

The regional branches of the German Evangelical Church, the main Protestant body, were often administered and financed through governmental agencies. The Nazis saw a distinct advantage in having Protestant churches ''whose supreme administrative organs were located within the borders of Germany,'' the outline says. This facilitated plans ''to capture and use the church organization for their own purposes'' and ''to secure the elimination of Christian influences in the Evangelical Church by legal or quasi legal means.''

 

I don’t dispute that Bush is a whacko Christian (or at least pretends to be). But that was not the reason he invaded Iraq. He and his family did excellent business with their Muslim Saudi friends. Seems that shared monetary interests can overcome all religious differences. So get real.

 

Well, this may come as a surprise to you, but the people in communist countries soon got to be atheists. These Atheist majority countries you dream about don't exist in Scandinavia, but in Eastern Germany they still do. Maybe it's time to take off the ideological goggles.

- - - Updated - - -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Australia

 

The only thing some Christians like better than their Abrahamic God is the Money God


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As far as I can make out, Stalin had 20 million people either executed, or killed via the labour camps, in order to impose his form of tyranny. But he killed no one because that person believed in God (being a socialist is not the same thing as being an atheist). Much the same may be said of Mao, or the Nazi regime. All of whom discouraged organised religion in order to more effectively impose state worship.

The various religions however, have killed untold millions since the dawn of time for a number of reasons - from human sacrifice, to the belief in the wrong God, or a lack of belief in any God. Added to which is the sectarian violence and genocide which the various brands of religious belief have caused.

So I don't believe the atheists are even in the running for the homicidal crown.

 

Isn't this a little on the extreme side? I don't remember George Bush declaring Afghanistan & Iraq as holy wars. Perhaps you're just being purposely hyberbolic?

 

excellent post, and you pointed out the essential flaws in the argument that people kill in the name of atheism.

 

no, they didn't. the chinese are incredibly prone to superstition. this element of the culture has NEVER been satisfactorily eradicated, and is the very reason so many of them are taking to Christianity today. and Russians aren't much different. these two cultures are about the worst possible example of superstition free peoples. it's actually kinda funny, when you know both cultures as well as I do

 

What really is funny is that we’ve been at this exact same point a couple of weeks ago. I shall tell you now what I told you then: Atheism and superstition aren’t mutually exclusive. In this very forum you’ll find an atheist poster who insists on the existence of telekinesis and other psychic powers. At the moment it turns out he mistakes Dan-Brown-like conspiracy theories for actual history. Which probably isn’t superstitious but simply daft and the next best thing to the stuff Dennis Tate likes to post here.

I know it pains to get disillusioned, but face it:

a) Norway is not an “atheist majority country”.

b) Atheism won’t make the world a better place devoid of war and conflict. People will always find reasons to fight each other.

 

people who subscribe to superstitions (anything involving the supernatural) ain't atheists. at least, not any kind of atheist that I'm familiar with . seriously though, such people are merely non-religious. or more accurately, don't subscribe to formalised religious dogmas. the atheism I know is a lack of belief in the supernatural - of any kind.

Norway is one of the countries listed amongst the least religious on the planet. I can't explain that, but perhaps Norwegians can?

I have never claimed atheism = a perfect world. That's frankly idiotic. What will make a BETTER world is more ethical living. It just happens that ethical living as currently desperately needed is more likely to occur amongst liberals (what with many of the necessary changes being considered anti-establishment and unorthodox by conservatives), and liberals are more likely to be atheist.

 

I know this is lazy, but:

"Throughout the history of the Soviet Union (1922-1991), Soviet authorities suppressed and persecuted various forms of Christianity to different extents depending on the particular era. Soviet policy, based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism, made atheism the official doctrine of the Soviet Union. Marxism-Leninism has consistently advocated the control, suppression, and the elimination of religious beliefs.[1]

The state was committed to the destruction of religion,[2][3] and destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed and executed religious leaders, flooded the schools and media with atheistic teachings, and generally promoted atheism as the truth that society should accept.[4][5] The total number of Christian victims of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated to range between 12-20 millions.[6][7][8]

Religious beliefs and practices persisted among the majority of the population,[4] in the domestic and private spheres but also in the scattered public spaces allowed by a state that recognised its failure to eradicate religion and the political dangers of an unrelenting culture war."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

This is not to say that atheism necessarily leads to intolerance and bloody persecution of non-atheists. Thing is: neither does religion necessarily lead to intolerance and bloody persecution of non-believers.
People will always find a reason to be brutal and to morally defend their personal greed and lust for power, be it in religion, in culture, in ideology ... .

Now what I find slightly worrying about atheism though, is that I fear Dostojewski had a point, when he said: "If there is no God - then everything is permitted."

 

The reason for so many Christian Deaths was not because they were Christian's but because Stalin in an INSANE ATTEMPT....to spread the population of the Soviet Union across the mostly uninhabited and uninhabitable Siberian and just below Siberian Line lands.....as Stalin insanely thought that by relocating the populations into all zones the Soviet People would multiply and exist in vast numbers all across the Asian Continent.

Instead the vast majority died of starvation.

This was about an idiotic Stalin Plan not about killing Christians.

AboveAlpha

 

Dream on. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist, pacifist "I want to save the planet" liberal myself. I'm also a Christian. And I know very many atheists, both liberal and conservative. In my experience all of these groups sport (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s. Hell, I myself can be a huge (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) sometimes.

 

no really, I don't know any superstitious atheists. I know non-religious superstitious people, though.

I'm a huge (*)(*)(*)(*)wit more than sometimes

 

Most Atheists I know tend to stay out of other peoples business and most have Christmas Trees because cutting down and bringing in a fir or balsum tree into a persons home at the Winter Solstice and Decorating a Tree was done several thousand years before Christ was born.

AboveAlpha