WHAT?? I never said anything about Concealed carriers killing people, I said they were paranoid. Bloody hell mate, get your facts straight. Quote me as to where I said that.
You were comparing the behavior of what you expect of cops and CHLs in terms of killing people. See your quote in my previous post. I brought you my opinion of the behavior of CHL holders in terms of killing people and quoted statistics of a US state (about the same size as Australia) with over 700k CHL holders as a reference. CHL holders killed 53 criminals in 2012 compared to 50 criminals killed by cops. All 103 of these killings were ruled to be justifiable homicides and therefore not crimes. My original post included a reference to the low amount of crime that legal gun carriers commit compared to the general public. I just pulled an all nighter at work and I'm off to bed. I'll try to get back on here tonight some time if needed.
You should learn both more geography and also how to read a chart. The US is #15 for gun-homicides on your link. Also, you should consider the history of the situation. Both Canada and Australia love the British Monarchy and sent soldiers to fight and die for it in the thousands during WWI. America kicked out the British Monarchy over 200 years ago through force of arms.
The other thing is, that if you look at true children (12 and under) the U.S. stats drop even more. Please link to Australian government statistics on gun deaths by age? You can make up these numbers, but don't have proof. Please prove them. Studies haven't shown that. You are misquoting me. I said concealed carriers MURDER less people than police officers. Murder means unjustified killing, not killing as self defense or in the line of duty. I would expect police officers to kill more, but it's not jsut that. Police officers MURDER more, meaning that they kill more people illegally than do concealed carry. Please read for comprehension. No problem with reading of length. My problem was your poor formatting. I don't know if they teach this in Australian schools, but in American schools we are taught that spacing of paragraphs, etc., is part of the communication process. A mass of text without noticeable breaks is hard for a reader. Also, I posted facts, unlike the conjecture and lying stats that you posted. Please respond with facts, and not just wildly invented stats. Sources do matter, and if you did any research, you would note that rawstory is a very heavily left wing biased site, that selectively quotes their sources. Have the intellectual curiosity to at least check out their sources. I never mentioned anything about you being from Australia. Until you brought up your wild conjecture about Australian stats, it never entered my mind. Your post was just typical anti-gun drivel full of half truths.
I answered you with stats. There is no rational reason to ban assault weapons. They are responsible for less than 2.5% of murders (hands are responsible for 5% of murders). You didn't like the answer, so you ignored it.
I've shown you facts, you ignored them. Please stop trolling and start reading. - - - Updated - - - I presume you also don't own a fire extinguisher, you know, because of outlandish hypotheticals.... No fire is going to burn your house down. Calm down.
I'll cut the OP a little slack.. i'll assume you have gotten your perception from the propaganda sources among the anti firearm crowd. 1. The gun 'problems' are not from law abiding citizens, but gangs, criminals, & illegal firearm ownership. Enforce the law in those areas, & end the social engineering policies that have CAUSED the breakdown of the family & the crime breeding ground, & you would end most of the problems. 2. Your perceptions of 'gun nuts' running around shooting in the air, galloping their horses through the streets, & tossing whiskey bottles in the air shooting them, is a bit outdated, & is mostly from hollywood. You seldom see anyone open carry, even in gun friendly states like arizona. The caricature & false narrative you present is inaccurate. 3. The 2nd amendment has been 'regulated' for a long time. Many cities have strict regulations, as well as states. You cannot open carry in nyc, or hawaii, but you can in texas or arizona. But there are restrictions for open carry even in the legal states. No bars, banks, etc. 4. Your perception that 'any criminal, mentally deranged or affected person or person with a criminal history would be able to purchase an extremely effective firearm' is false. Only legal, law abiding citizens with clear records of criminal activity or mental health exceptions can purchase firearms. 5. Most of your points are hysterical caricatures, fraught with assumptions, prejudicial 'facts', & mere assertions. This is not an invitation for a rational debate, but more of a troll thread, to invite flame wars. 6. I own several firearms.. i have for years. I have an ar-15, but it is no match for an f16, should i have to engage an oppressive force attempting to take over my country. But i will use any old revolver, if i have to, to keep my freedoms, & those of my countrymen. If you in Oz want to ban firearms, that is fine. I think you relinquish a valuable deterrence to despotic oppression, but you'll learn. I have never shot at anyone, nor has anyone shot at me. I hope to never use my firearms for home defense, or national defense, but if i have to, i will. Freedom is VERY important to me, & i am grieved to see the direction toward despotism & imperial rule that we are heading as a nation. Those who champion imperial rule, & the destruction of the american experiment of self rule & citizen representatives, are the biggest proponents of gun control. That is no coincidence. They hope to disarm any deterrence from their state centered ideology, & give supreme authority to their beloved state. That is NOT my america, & i will fight this with my words, vote, forum posts, & if need by, with armed resistance.
Yeah, I said the WESTERN world... Jesus H Christ, learn to read. And my father was born and raised in Manchester, Britain, I'm a British supporter, and am proud that the commonwealth fought as a united force during the Great War, of course your men fought and died in the same war as allies to Britain, so I don't see your point.
Yeah, since my wife is American and I have many American friends (who aren't as deluded as you) and that half the country disagrees with your view, I'll say whatever I want (That's a first amendment thing, of course that one isn't as important as the second). I haven't lost my nerve in the slightest, I'll be on this forum until the end of time with you folks if that's what it takes to silence you, and yes, I went out tonight and had a grand old time at the pub, and I didn't carry a pistol, didn't have to worry about "people raping my family" (as another poster commented) while I was gone, and got drunk, which I still am, yet strangely still coherent - because I have a life beyond internet forums. And if you were here, without your precious guns, at the pub with me, and you started spouting your ignorant views to anybody inside, you'd be punched out, and just have your fists to defend yourself with, y'know, how actual men settle disputes, not (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) with firearms. - - - Updated - - - I'll reply tomorrow, I have to get some sleep as it's 2am here.
Again, learn geography. Most of those other 14 countries are in the Western world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world
Ah, "deluded". Yea, that's it. You got it all figured out. Keep your anti gun attitude. I will keep my guns. Plus, I don't care about your friends, your wife, your visits. You wish to show disrespect towards a long long standing part of our history and the DNA of our nation. Yet don't worry about about a crime being committed towards you family, what a father and husband you are. - - - Updated - - - Ah, "deluded". Yea, that's it. You got it all figured out. Keep your anti gun attitude. I will keep my guns. Plus, I don't care about your friends, your wife, your visits. You wish to show disrespect towards a long long standing part of our history and the DNA of our nation. Yet don't worry about about a crime being committed towards you family, what a father and husband you are.
According to the Australian Institute of Criminology crime is up since 1996 to 2011 (when the report was made) The only crime that was down is homicides. I dont know if the gun ban is the cause of all this or not. But to say crime is down in Australia since that ban would be false. Also remember there are around 22 million people in Australia while in America there are around 313 Million. Also provided are the stats for the USA as well. While we had way more crimes we also have fourteen times the people. As you can see below all of our crimes went down during the same period while our gun ownership increased. Is there a correlation again I dont know. What I do know is that America is making huge strides in crime prevention while also having way more guns while Australian crime in general is going up while restricting their guns more then ever before. So you all be the judge. ( i tried to print out the numbers here but I just could not get the formatting to work. I am sorry) Australia http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/facts/1-20/2012/1_recorded.html USA http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
There are legitimate rational arguments for supporting private gun ownership, but you won't likely hear one from a gun nut -- and a gun nut flame war is the only thing that one can hope for when mentioning the Second Amendment on an Internet forum.
No, I do support private licensed gun ownership, and believe it or not, I've hunted kangaroos in the past (which is legitimate pest control, all they're good for is ruining the bonnet of your car, massive overpopulation here), and I'm quite happy to go clay-pigeon shooting whenever the opportunity finds me (which hasn't been a while), among a few other legitimate reasons that there are. The issues I've stated as problems are there, and I'll rescind my comment made earlier last night (in my defense I was drunk), and just leave it here as to my argument. I've made my points, they've retorted, if you want to say something to the effect of "why back out now"; another guy said that on page 2 of this thread, and I tried, for common sense's sake to continue, but to no avail. Five pages into this thread and I'm bloody sick of repeating the same points. Keep your precious pea-shooters if the world will end without them, I'm on to debate other political matters. Cheers.
Instead of going on about your opinion, lets just get straight to the facts. The following comes from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. The CDC also collects some data related to crime, but the fundamental source for USA crime data is the FBI UCR. The source for AUS crime data is the Australian Bureau of Statistics Crime Reports. AUS implemented its gun ban in 1996. Notice that homicide in AUS actually went up after the ban was implemented, peaking in 2001 and then decreasing. Also notice that total violent crime in AUS increased substantially after the ban (violent crime is homicide, assault, robbery, sexual assault). Also note the magnitude of the numbers - homicide went from 3.63 per 100,000 people to 4.2 in 2001 to 2.4 in 2009 (it was 2.0 last year), while total violent crime went from 717 to 1016 in 2001 to 960 in 2009. In exchange for a decrease in homicide of 1.8 AUS increased total violent crime by 243. During about the same period, the USA dropped its homicide rate from 9.5 in 1993 to 4.7 in 2012, and total violent crime dropped from 747 in 1993 to 387 in 2012. At the same time, gun laws in the US at both the state and federal level have been relaxed significantly, and gun ownership has increased dramatically. So tell me, is the USA or AUS on the right path? AUS banned guns and crime went up - and up by a lot. It looks like more guns mean less crime.
you sound like a very angry person, highly emotional, always fighting...nope, I'd say you are a candidate for 0 gun ownership. I can see why you choose not to have any weapon. You just might really hurt or kill someone out of anger.
