Conversation with a Pastor

Demanding an intention is declared, and that that intention is in OUR favour (or the favour of whatever we're 'sharing') BEFORE we'll share ... is not only bloody minded, but also incredibly arrogant.

Such people ought to find jobs which are better suited to their vanity.

 

...but you will only know God exist through repentance, faith and a personal relationship with him.

...its like a person who claims to know exactly what being a woman is like, or being black. You can only speculate and decide based on what you see and hear.

 

So . . . you believe in him first, and then you know he exists? What do I do when members of other religions ask me to try the same thing: to just try believing and then I'll see the evidence? Our brains are hardwired to single out "evidence" that agrees with our premises, so asking someone to adopt the premise first and then look for evidence is highly problematic.

 

Where did I say I believed first?
Sorry I wanted to be a humanist, then I was agnostic, then dabbled in Pagan stuff. At one time I liked the idea of Christianity but couldn't get past the Bibles so called outdated ideas. Jesus was huge a stumbling block. I use to almost cringe when Id hear people thanking Jesus for things and saw it as a sign of weakness.
I like to find logical reasons for things
Couple years ...and fast forward.. A few things happened( 2 times with non Christian witnesses) that cannot be explained away.
I believe in spiritual warfare. No I don't see it ( jaws music playing lol) "everywhere", But I know its there.
General honest repentance is where I started.

 

I have Muslim, Pagan, Bahai, Taoist, Jewish etc. friends that all say the same thing: they came to their religious beliefs through experiences that cannot be explained away. Should I only believe Christians when they say this?

 

That's ludicrous. First of all I didn't tell you that, the bible told you it's gods will that none should perish and all should have everlasting life.

Second, just because God CAN do or use something does not mean that he will. That's part of the problem of your understanding. You think that if God has the power to do something then he must do it. Thats shown wrong over and over again throughout the bible.

 

No God doesn't have to do it. But neither can anyone choose a choice that God doesn't already know will be chosen. No ONE can choose something different that what God knows the choice will be, ever. IF God is Omniscient.

So it's not in God's will to save his creation?
I do believe you said, only those like you can be saved?
Or what is your stance on who will be saved?

And are you telling me I'm wrong for believing what is written in the bible? Yet you hang your hat on what's written in the bible, just you only want to limit what verses you are willing to accept and throw the rest out.

 

You can never know if God exists until you meet it. All one can do is speculate, period.
For your relationship is not the same as mine, nor a jewish person, or a muslim person. Each have their own special relationship that is unique to them and only speculation.

 

How many asians have had a similar experience to yours, and end up with a completely different entity that they believe exists?
Good for you, glad you found peace, but those that don't get your experience can't have that relationship.
Had you never ever heard of Jesus, what would you think was the spirit you'd be having a relationship with. Never mind. I know that can never be answered. But I just threw it out for thought.

 

I talk anything but theology with professional Christians.

They are scared to death of getting into arguments over whatever anyone else's personal bent is about G O D (don't want to offend potential congregation members). They have to toe the line if their church is denominational too. Can't contradict the bishop if you want to keep your job ya know. Others are all about the "spirit" which means they don't think about theology...ever. Its just about gods love and they have no interest in the other questions.

 

this is frankly, absurd.

what you're saying is that you must believe in god/s before you can believe in god/s. this equates to buying the car before you test drive or look under the hood. it's entirely an EMOTIONAL decision, and has nothing to do (obviously) with the quality of the merchandise.

 

quoted because it's a question I want to see answered

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which is precisely why men make very bad leaders. see "war"

their decision making is not tempered by consideration of implications, and testosterone is always involved.

 

This was a non-denominational superchurch type group. my impression was that she was scared to death anyway. I have no clue what they think they're doing by setting themselves up as authorities and advertising their services as such. Keep in mind this pastor's full time job was giving INFORMATION on Christianity.

I simply can't believe that these kids are only taught how to answer questions from the converted, but you can't help thinking that that is actually the case. When I considered studying theology a while back, and made enquiries of various colleges, all but one talked about the overwhelming emphasis on preaching to non-believers - what with the great need for god in the world today.

What in hell did they think this would entail? A young pastor talks about how much god loves us all, and wouldn't it be great if we could all love him right back .. and that crowd of sceptics would respond with "oh please tell us how much god loves us". Do they seriously think no one is ever going to ask "can you show me any empirical evidence that this god of yours is real?"

 

That's your opinion.

 

Genesis has several verses that refute your strawman that God is Omniscient.

 

OK, but it's not my strawman. There are many major denominations that believe and teach it.
You should start a campaign to correct all those christian religions if you think they are wrong.

Divine knowledge

Description of the Divine Knowledge
That God is omniscient or possesses the most perfect knowledge of all things, follows from His infinite perfection. In the first place He knows and comprehends Himself fully and adequately, and in the next place He knows all created objects and comprehends their finite and contingent mode of being. Hence He knows them individually or singularly in their finite multiplicity, knows everything possible as well as actual; knows what is bad as well as what is good. Everything, in a word, which to our finite minds signifies perfection and completeness of knowledge may be predicated of Divine omniscience,
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm

I am not catholic, but the religion I was brought up on, Lutheran, also taught the same as the RC.

 

The few times I have tried have been completely frustrating. Its like they wait for you to tell them what you want them to say. In the case of an agnostic or an atheist we usually just want to hear what their convictions are and why they have them. I am currently convinced that none of them are brave enough to do that.

Curious enough I am closely involved with an Episcopalian church right now. They fully accept members who currently are atheist or agnostic. Its definitely a don't ask don't tell situation, but I very strongly suspect that I have met a number of atheist clergy. God knows they would never openly admit it.

 

I think you are wrong. If all those religions want to come to this thread and assert that God is Omniscient, I will gladly pint term to a few of the verses in which God did not know something.

 

A representative from all those religions are here. So go ahead and prove away.
For every verse you say God is wrong, which BTW, I know there are, there are verses to show its omniscience.

The bible is very contradictive to those not blinded.

 

I don't knock anyone's experience as invalid. I just don't believe the lie about all paths lead to the same place anymore. My experience wasn't on what I think I need...it was based on the word of God...and that's in the Bible.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...glican-priests-are-not-believers-9821899.html

 

I believe there is more than 1 path. Especially if God is about loving its creation. To rule of 2/3 of the world right from the get go is not a loving god. IE, only 1/3 of the world claim christian.

 

Faith is still a virture only if God exists.
It isn't relevant if you know anything about God or being black or female.

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Faith is still only a virtue if God exists.

 

Who said I was an Atheist ? Just because someone believes in God does not mean they have to live in denial and fallacy.

How does this "generalization", obviously some women are more logical than most men, relate to who should be teaching the word of God ?

If women are less logical in general as men then we should have more women as teachers of Protestant Christianity because it is illogical by definition.

 

Because women are easier to trick, because statistically, they are more emotional (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...w-men-and-women-process-emotions-differently/). People who tend to be more emotional (i.e. Atheists) tend to make more rash decisions. This is a scientific fact (http://classroom.synonym.com/emotions-affect-way-act-16256.html).

Emotions include extra bouts of anger, depression, sadness and even fear. Such emotions drastically impairs our ability to think rationally. Thus, emotions force us to make bad decisions.
Atheists are a prime example. They are easy to fool, because whatever emotional trigger caused them to disbelieve in God has made them willing to listen to any alternative, no matter how wacky it may be. It's the number 1 reason why atheists can't even defend their own world views.