Conversation with a Pastor

Evolution is proven fact. Why is this so troubling to fundamentalists ? The majority of Christians have no problem with this fact.

Just because evolution is fact does not mean that humans came from apes. This must be your confusion and so you mistakenly think it conflicts with your literalist Bible beliefs.

Superbugs are real. I work in the field of applied microbiology and use these principles (natural selection) to get bacteria to eat hydrocarbons.

Mutations happen all the time within species and this makes small changes to that species so that members will have differences. Some of these mutations are beneficial and some are not. Its random chance.

If you take an anti-biotic most of the bad bacteria will be killed but often there are some bacteria who are more resistant (due to a genetic mutation) to the antibiotic and they survive. The offspring of those that survive will all be more resistant to the antibiotic.

Some mutations give that organism a better chance of survival than the others. This is natural selection. In this case the organisms that were resistant to the antibiotic had a better chance of survival and so more of these bacteria survived and they became dominate.

In the case of a hydrocarbon spill, that has been there for some time, you will always find bacteria that are able to use the hydrocarbon as an organic carbon substrate (food). In an environment that has a high percentage of hydrocarbon contamination, bacteria that are able to use this as food have a better chance of survival than bacteria who can not.

Evolution is the process by which small changes (mutations) within a species make some organisms different than others.

Your claim that such mutations are always degenerative is simply not true. It is proven false by the above examples of beneficial mutations.

Natural selection is a process within evolution whereby some mutations give an organism a survival advantage over others thus increasing its probability of survival to the production of offspring.

Organisms with a higher probability of survival will survive over time and the others will tend to die off. This is evolution.

 

Where in the Bible does it say this?

 

Are you suggesting humans have be degenerating for the last 10,000 yrs or more?
We are going backwards from the cave man days?

 

Never a truer statement.

- - - Updated - - -

Adam was white and blue eyed. Some will believe anything.
Japanese were blue eyed before we nuked them?

 

It DOES exclusively describe evolution via natural selection. Again, Darwin didn't know about genetics, genetic drift, or any other evolutionary process. You seem to be saying that he DID know about these things.

So you lied. Nothing in this post of yours describes what you think Darwin wrote about in addition to natural selection.

 

On no, it's not a lie, it's educating atheists. I think he's educating atheists to think christians to be some of the most ignorant people on earth.

 

Hell with those majority of Christians who believe whatever they want.

This is not about how many people believe in the theory of evolution, this is about the theory of evolution of being no more than a stupid fallacy.

I have mentioned indisputable facts, that the horse has lost more characteristics than gaining new ones, and that the T-Rex is an animal showing birth defects. With these two facts I establish that degeneration rules.

Then, I mentioned how species have no control of their changes but that the environment causes them to change and the species just try to survive with their new degenerate status.

All this from abovet are FACTS.

On the other hand, the Darwinian natural selection is not observed when we see frogs born with several legs, eyes all around their body, ants losing their wings, and more, just from one generation to another by causes of the environment. Where is such a silly Darwinian natural selection with "changes in species solely in slow and small steps and favorable changes only"?

Definitively evolution is not a fact but a common error, a gigantic mistake, a stupidity.

It is clear that you don't know anything about mutations in microbes.

I can bet that you have no idea how antibiotics work inside the human body to combat bacteria and the attempts made that when doing so to avoid destroying human cells.

See? I will ask you, in specific, what "more resistant" means for you?

Try to explain it the best you can. I know how the mutations occur, and those have nothing to do with being more "resistant". Even when this is the common "expression" used to describe the event of antibiotics not affecting the mutated bacteria, in reality it is not a case of bacteria acquiring resistance.

So, you have plenty time to explain here what you know.

What I can observe is that you have been brainwashed very well, I might use the service of the ones who performed such an extraordinary brainwashing on you, I might try to contact them to brainwash people back to sanity.

Such is not evolution, such is desperate survival. You will find yourself eating rats if no other food is available.

Look, compare the species like I did with bacteria and the T-Rex.

The environment will cause both to have changes in their bodies and functional organs. While bacteria will be changed to be capable to absorb a different food, the same happens with the T-Rex which will have to change its diet from biting and chewing with teeth into swallowing the food which will be picked up with a beak.

Do you understand?

The T-Rex in its new degenerate body can't bite and chew anymore, and is forced by the changes to look for a different diet as well.

And a very similar situation is found with bacteria. After mutations there is not a super T-Rex, and there is not a super bug.

You have just copied and pasted doctrines of the theory of evolution.

The truth is that while the horse in America got extinct on the other hand the horse in the old continent survived. So, this is not about advantage after mutations and similar fantasies. This is just about being at the right place at the right moment.

Be realistic, the theory of evolution is nothing but a farce.

From now on, always remember that the former bird T-Rex after mutations never became a "Super T-Rex" but a mere bird without teeth, without arms, without a fleshy tail, and a beak instead, and that the same happens with bacteria after mutations never becoming a "super bug" but simply bacteria with a degenerate new status.

 

This is some of the worst pseudo-intellectual crap I've seen.

1) Birth defects are not evidence against evolution. Not sure how you even came to that conclusion.
2) Mutations are not caused by the environment an organism lives in, most of the time. That may be different for environments wth a hell of a lot of radiation. What you're describing is Lamarckism, which has been thoroughly debunked.
3) The fact that you think the theory of evolution states that the T-Rex should become a "Super T-Rex" is really all we need to know about your knowledge of evolution.

 

You are so confused it is painful.

That a horse survived in one environment and not in another has everything to do with natural selection. Those that are not suited to current environmental conditions die and those that are suited or can adapt live.

I have done research and testing of biocides on bacteria which is the same as testing antibiotics (Antibiotics is a biocide for humans). Bacteria that survive the testing are those that are "resistant" to the biocide. This simply means that they can tolerate a higher dose of biocide than others.

The bacteria that survive then produce offspring which are resistant to the biocide. This is natural selection (evolution) at work).

 

You know very little about evolution or natural selection... Why do you suppose so many birds in Australia are flightless?

BTW.. horses were first domesticated in Arabia 10,000 years ago.. and they have changed very little since then.

 

I like this post, not becuse I'm into micro/biology but my son agrees with you in the main, and he has a Masters from Oxford in the subject.

 

Even one with a basic knowledge of biology can see natural selection at work all over the place.

Folks back in the day like Darwin did not even have an understanding of Genetics and they were able to figure it out.

Now a days with our understanding of Genetics we not only see it happening but can explain exactly why it is happens.

 

GUY'S......MEMBERS.....MODS!!!!!

I CAN'T DO IT!!!

If I reply to his nonsense I will end up BREAKING SOMETHING!!!

I knew there existed people like this but I NEVER thought anyone could be so.....I AM NOT GOING TO SAY IT!!!

CAMERON!!!

Go and take a few College Classes....it can even be at a CHRISTIAN COLLEGE.....classes upon EVOLUTION, BIOCHEMISTRY....and my GOD MAN.....learn something about MOLECULAR BIOLOGY!!!

I can state with ABSOLUTE 100% CERTAINTY THAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!

This is ME being NICE to YOU!!!!!!

Because if I was say.....Pope John Paul II....or any head of any Science Dept. of ANY CHRISTIAN COLLEGE....if you said to them what you just posted to me....THEY WOULD SLAP YOU IN THE FACE FOR SPOUTING SUCH IDIOCY!!!

Now it's one thing to have Religious Faith and Beliefs and I have no problem with that and everyone has a right to their Religious Ideology.....BUT EVERY SECT OF CHRISTIANITY WITH THE EXCEPTION OF BAPTISTS DOES NOT TAKE THE BIBLE WORD FOR WORD LITERALLY!!!!!

Every sect of Christianity except Baptists understands the GENETIC ENGINEERING IS HERE...NOW!!!

Evolution they know is no longer a THEORY....is is a FACT.....PROVEN UPON A MOLECULAR/ATOMIC GENETIC LEVEL which allows Evolution thus the Mapping of the Human and all other Living Things GENOMES....to allow a MATHEMATICAL DISCOURSE AND COMPARISON UPON A MATHEMATICAL LEVEL OF PROOF!!!

YOU and I and a CAT and a DOG and a PLANT and a BUG and a BIRD and a FREAKING BACTERIA....ALL SHARE A SINGLE AND IDENTICAL ANCIENT VIRAL DNA ENCODING!!!

In fact out of the Millions upon Millions of Viral DNA Encodings into all Living Things including People......THERE ONLY EXISTS ONE ANCIENT VIRAL DNA ENCODING THAT IS THE SAME IN ALL LIFE FORMS!!

THIS IS 100% PROOF POSITIVE THAT ALL LIVING SPECIES ON PLANET EARTH EVOLVED FROM A SINGLE CELLED LIFE FORM THAT WAS INFECTED BY A VIRUS WHICH ENCODED IT'S DNA INTO THE SINGLE CELLED LIFE FORM AND THOSE IN THE PROCESS OF REPRODUCTION VIA MITOSIS THAT WERE INFECTED BY THE VIRUS....and a VIRUS has DNA but is NOT A LIVING THING.....those that were infected and were also splitting survived thus allowing the next Generation of Living Cells to have an IMMUNITY to this VIRUS....and this is true today as if a person has never been infected before by a specific Virus they will get extremely sick and perhaps DIE without the aid of a VIROLOGICAL VACCINE!!! OR HAVING GOTTEN IMMUNIZED!!

MY GOD MAN!!!

I MIGHT HAVE A DOCTORATE BUT I AM NOT EITHER A BRICKLAYER....A MIRACLE WORKER OR AN IDIOT!!

IT'S DEAD JIM!!!

THIS THREAD IS DEAD!!!

AboveAlpha

 

Nive post but I have to tell you....HUMAN'S ARE APES.

The family Hominidae, known collectively as the great apes, include orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and humans;[1][2][3][4] alternatively, this family clade is also known as the hominids. There are seven extant species of great apes: two in the orangutans (genus Pongo), two in the gorillas (genus Gorilla), two in the chimpanzees (genus Pan), and a single extant species, Homo sapiens, of modern humans (genus Homo).[5][6]

LINK....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape

YEP!

We are APES!!

AboveAlpha

 

I agree with this person.

If people want to come up with a working theory that can replace Evolution then more power to them, but stop poking little holes at a few mysteries w have yet to explain and assume that destroys it.

But he is wrong some conservative branches of Lutheranism also take the Bible literally, the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Churches for example. And some other groups the Amish for example. But it is a minority position.

 

and some humans are more apish than others

 

Taking the Bible literally doesn't make it any truer.

 

Ahhh....it's not my place to tell people what to believe.

HOWEVER....it is my responsibility to state FACTS when presented with fiction.

AboveAlpha

 

I did not say they were not. Baby steps I was merely distinguishing between the question of evolution and the idea so horrifying to fundamentalists.

Just because evolution exists does not mean that humans evolved from apes.

When we look at what humans did evolve from. Indeed we find it was from Apes. One can get a DNA test done and find out how much Neanderthal DNA one has.

My son just had it done an it turns out he is not very susceptible to many diseases because he has a high percentage of Neanderthal.

 

Gad, that is really cool!