Is Jesus God, part of God or another God?

It explains nothing. How is jesus both the SON of your god, and also your god?

And no, your jesus didn't do anything for me. Not unless you're prepared to acknowledge all those other martyred gods and prophets who died for you - then we can agree that all gods and prophets are as real as yours.

Meantime, your boy was 'dead' for 3 days. Some sacrifice.

 

I'm sure he will note your appreciation when the time comes.
What have you done for your fellow man?

 

wow ... that was easy

 

and what you did for your fellow man (that's comparable) was..
It's not my fault if it's over your head.
That's just how it is.
Just because your pea-brain can't comprehend it,doesn't mean that isn't how it is.
God the Father is God.
Jesus is his son.
If that's too difficult for you to comprehend;We are not going to have an intelligent conversation.

 

K

What type of a guy wants to be worshipped? Sounds like an egotist to me. That's certainly not my kind of God. I would prefer someone with a little more class. Do you know of any such gods?

 

The most well know explanations are those of the egg; yolk , white and shell, or the clover; with its three part leaf.

I like the metaphorical one. God has a triune nature (body, mind, spirit), as do we

Some say it is symbolical of the fact that Christianity has combined its mythos with history and produced something new among religions.

Most see the Trinity as Platonic. Christ is the Demiurge

 

this thread has become truly painful. it's like watching a bunch of apes trying to explain the satellites orbiting overhead. even i, a non-believer, can understand that god the creator is unbounded by the limitations of the physical world. while you and i are struggling along in our three dimensional world, this creative force is free to be everything and nothing at once. those who penned the gospels were trapped by their limited understanding and forced to use such literary devices as the father, the son and the holy spirit to attempt to explain the facets of the creator. each a seemingly separate presence with a separate mission, but all consisting of the entirety of the creator. there is the foremost manifestation, god the father, the creator of all things. there is the holy spirit, the everyday manifestation of the believers' faith in the lord. this is the sense of enlightenment, the comfort and the love that believers are led to by their faith. then there is the son, the path to redemption for the imperfect mortals that we all are. does all this seem implausible? well, it should. you are, after all, less than a fly speck in comparison to a force capable of creating all that exists, all that ever has existed and all that ever will exist. while this force is creating everything in what would seem to you to be less than an instant, y'all are worrying about how many heads the damn thing has. it has no heads. it isn't some robed grey-beard wandering aimlessly through the clouds. only mindless atheists and gap-toothed rubes think that the ceiling of the sistine chapel is considered by anyone to be photographic evidence of the divine.

 

I'm sorry, worship might be the wrong word to use.

By worship, I mean that I go to him with my problems, and I trust that whatever happens is meant to make me better. Jesus did not want us to go to him with our thanks and with our requests, he wanted us to go to God. That is what I meant.

 

Pea brain .... that's nice

Meantime, repeating the mantra doesn't shed even a little bit of light. How is an entity both father and son, and vice versa? All I want is the mechanics of it. You can't expect us to take your assertions seriously if you don't understand what you're asserting.

 

I imagine it's very painful, to those disposed to magic thinking. After all, we're calling bluffs

 

Considering the FACT (as is obvious from even just this thread) that the Christians that claim to "Know God" cannot agree on what this thing they "Know even IS.....it seems an exercise on futility to ask us atheists what it's son might be.

My answer however is simple...NONE OF THE ABOVE!

 

It's true, sadly. It is one of a few facts that christians can't agree on.

 

I do have a question for those who believe in the Trinity.

Firstly, why is it that Jesus says he is the Son of God if he is in fact God. Why also would he call himself the Son of Man?

Follow up on that, why does Jesus always speak to his "father"? According to the Trinity idea, Jesus is God so who is his Father?

 

It seems there are quite a bit more than a "Few".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

 

I see what you mean. It is an unfprtunate product of history.

 

Unfortunate but the natural course of all religions. Because there is no actual data concerning the God they follow, it is required to fabricate information to worship and because we are all different we make up different things....thus we have unique versions of Gods and what it means.

I am atheist because I do not wish to pick one of the thousands and tell the rest they are wrong...they are ALL correct, for the folks who want it.

 

Do you agree that the NT which we now consider the definitive answer to the questions I posed is a political statement intended to promote the interests of Constantine or do you think the members of the council did their work without any consideration of the politics of the time? The selection of gospels among hundreds if not thousands is a subjective act. The issues and questions I posed were debated vigorously and yes, the Arians lost but that does not mean they were right or wrong, it merely says they lost the debate about how to form a canon based upon the notion that Jesus was a God as you say. You brush my questions aside as if they were simple, they are not. First you start with God, then you have a human form of God named Jesus. Jesus dies and goes up to heaven. Is Jesus a separate being from God as we speak right now? If not then Jesus does not exist anymore, he is no more significant to us than Muhammed, Moses, Abraham or Zoraster for that matter. If Jesus is indeed in heaven as billions think he is, then he is a separate God. Making up logical contortions to avoid this question is what the Catholic Church did for centuries at the point of a sword or threat of excommunication.

 

Early first generation Christians have no problem or issue with Jesus Christ is God it is the succeeding generation that started to spread all sort of false claims due to many enemies of Christ especially the religious leaders of Jews plotting and scheming to flood the community with all sorts of false manuscripts and stories about Christ. The true followers of Christ would start to document and put everything down and get themselves organize in order to counter all these attacks that would culminate with the Apostolic Church of Christ led by the Pope. The church would document and research every materials and discoveries in order to protect the authenticity of Christ.

 

From where Im sitting...you kinda sound like the egotist, not God.
...but to answer your question. There is always the never ending buffet of false gods and godesses you could chose from, theres the universe ( never know what youd get with that one) you could worship objects, other people, yourself.
and atheism...base your life 100% on facts.
or you could chose Gods grace through Jesus Christ.

Salvation by grace alone means that we did absolutely nothing to earn or merit salvation.

Simply defined, grace is God’s unmerited favor. If you did anything to earn it or deserve it, it is not grace. If God owes it to you because you’re a pretty good person or you’ve tried to do the best you can, it is not grace. If God gives it to you because He foresaw that you would believe in Him of your own free will, it is not grace. Grace means that you get the opposite of what you deserve. You deserve God’s wrath because you have sinned against Him. Instead, He saves you by His grace.

Grace cuts directly against the grain of human thinking, because it is not fair. We value fairness. If someone does wrong, he should get what he has coming. If someone does right, he should be rewarded. But if someone does wrong and gets rewarded in spite of it, we protest, “That’s not fair!” ... its not a scapegoat.
open to anyone.
John 3:16-17

 

I appreciate that way of looking at life. Thank you for not trying to force believers not to believe as some do.

 

No, Jesus is God. I provided evidence.

We can't help but notice that you didn't, but that's understandable because
you haven't any.

True story.

 

There were no politics involved. Constantine wanted to solve the issue. The sole purpose of the
Council of Nicea was to determine the divinity of Jesus. Nothing else. The council agreed that what
scripture said about Jesus, i.e. he is divine, was correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

The questions you posed were not discussed at the first Council of Nicea. Arius lost because the
evidence was overwhelming. You suggest there were hundreds or thousands of text at the time. It
doesn't matter. The fact remains that older manuscripts agree that Jesus is God.

It had nothing to do with forming the canon.

Some want to believe the Scriptures were rewritten or destroyed. There is no evidence to
support that issue.

That's because they are simple. Seriously, you provided nothing difficult. Maybe the reason you
find them difficult is because you don't understand the Scriptures. Or maybe you're trying too hard.

That's what the Scriptures say.

Jesus isn't a separate being. Jesus was God, Jesus is God and Jesus will remain God.

Jesus isn't a separate God. The Scriptures are very clear that he is God. Thankfully there is no reason
to contort or make up anything because it's clearly written and easily understood.

By the way, what the Catholic Church did is irrelevant and doesn't change what the Scripture says.
For many years it was hijacked by men with evil intent. That's how we got the Spanish Inquisition, paying
penance for sins and threats of death for not adhering to their doctrine that clearly didn't agree with
Scripture and what Jesus taught. In other words it wasn't Christian.

 

the "it's all magical thinking" excuse is a cop out used by small minds. over and over again i've read posts by various atheists here claiming that religion is based on magic, but this is only because they do not understand the natural explanations behind it. y'all are like primitives faced with modern technology, you hide behind what little you know and claim that anything outside of your experience must be magic.

 

I'd like you to explain how "I don't understand, and my ego tells me I should understand, so I'll pretend to myself that I have all the answers (in this case, magical thinking - ie, supernatural beings)" is large minded, and "I don't understand, but that's okay" is small minded.

I must thank you - the comment about atheists being primitives hiding from reality and calling things magic was truly hilarious

 

For 5 centuries the nature of Christs divinity was a hotly debated topic by even the most high level Christians leaders. Bravo !! for figuring everything out on the basis of one passage.

OK ... So Jesus is separate but equal to God. Cool. Even so he decided to take the form of a human and as a human humbled himself before God.

While your perspective is interesting, it is one of many.

The first thing to note is that your perspective does not jive with the Trinity doctrine where Jesus "IS" God.

Your perspective also does not jive from the passage you quote. Phillipians states "equality" but you say Jesus is not equal. Also your added interpolation that Jesus felt he had to proves something to God and that Jesus existed forever are not stated in this passage.

Jesus may have taken pity on humans and by transforming himself into a human was trying to teach them reverence for God .. and not any personal humility on his part.

Your perspective does jive with the ideas of most of the early Church Fathers who also believed that Jesus was both separate and subordinate to the Father.

Phillipians does not however, jive with what the disciples thought as per the Gospel of Mark. In this Gospel Jesus is deified at his baptism.

The other synoptic Gospels use Mark as a source document. Each Author makes edits and additions.

In particular there is a progression where by the divinity of Jesus is transformed as is the story of the resurrection.

In Mark there is no "Physical" resurrection story where Jesus wanders about the earth in the flesh after death.

In Matt the divinity of Jesus is pushed back to his birth .. and he adds a Physical resurrection story (or it may have been added later).

By the time we get to John (90-120 AD) Christianity has undergone many changes - in particular it is distancing itself from Judaism and "The Law". The OT is being likened to old fables and myth.

John wants to give Christianity a wider appeal and so he introduces terminology that the average religious person is familiar with. "Logos" is one of those terms which meant an intermediary between God and Man.

In John Jesus is made "pre-existant" .. another thing that was hotly debated by early Christians.

So for those that do bother to read the Bible .. things are actually quite confusing