22 Israelis murdered 180 wounded during the last two months

God said the Jews have possession of The Land of Israel, forever.

Nothing happens without God's will, as you said.

That means the founding of the State of Israel was God's will.

 

Yep. And the UN second it.

 

Again, free will, and the Jews committed an evil by stealing the land. The Muslims failed because they were disunited, hence the will of God.

- - - Updated - - -

Right. And all those Palestinians who were protesting Jewish immigration were all a figment of the imagination.

 

its funny, how all other peoples conquered land, but when Jews win land through war, its STEALING!!!!

 

Conquer =/ steal.

 

so Muhammed stole land?

 

???????

 

he stole Mecca

 

No rant. Information on the killing and oppression of the occupied - homes being destroyed. This is just a glimpse into what is going on at the moment.

Makes no difference to you whether the person is an innocent baby as at least one has been - I am talking about since the knife attacks not before including the burning to death of Palestinian babies and children. This baby was gassed to death. Something the IOF is on record telling the Palestinians she is going to do with them - I left link at the time and something which has also killed a distinguished Palestinian Peace activist

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hashem-al-azzeh-death-draft-1948561501

Non violent peace activists are the most feared by Israelis and are frequently attacked

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/nov/08/israel-peace-activist-home-vandalised

but back to the gassing of Palestinians. The IOF chanting that they were going to Gas the Palestinians to death obviously came after their had been some deaths and they knew they could kill them this way ...and hark if they did not try this on a school in Hebron and kids in general.

http://www.imemc.org/article/73381





It is that they are Palestinians - a people you dehumanise and support at least ethnic cleansing for - a crime against humanity.

Have no idea what form of murder you are talking about. Hark how you talk of the idea of anyone caring about the murder and ill treatment of Palestinians as 'crocodile tears'. Clearly you have so dehumanised them that you cannot think of the on going murder, destruction of homes, taking over of land and destruction of means of living as anything but crocodile tears. The Palestinians it would appear so lack humanity that for anyone to protest their treatment must mean they are pretending.

I agreed that where there was risk of live and the only way to stop that was with killing of the perpetrator that was acceptable. However you equate even babies to 'terrorists' to accept your dehumanisation of the Palestinians and genocide/ethnic cleansing of them and ignore the daily killing, oppression and price tag attacks on Palestinians by settlers/IOF. Will you succeed, probably not and it is going to be a hard crash when it comes.

Ironically what is happening is just what your State Department predicted would happen if the indigenous Palestinians were dispossessed, their right for self determination removed and their land given over to European Jews wanting to set up a theocratic state - on all of Palestine when the vote for partition was going on. The US gave up everything for Israel. Why was that I wonder.

 

God is not an estate agent. The Church of Scotland who accept some responsibility for their colonial past in being a part of giving out this misinformation makes it quite clear that this belief that the people living on the land now called Israel were to be disposed and suffer over half a century of oppression so that foreign Jews can take over their land is not his will at all - or the will of any genuine Christian. Who would want to have anything to do with a 'God' that wanted that,

The Inheritance of Abraham

As for the UN vote, it meant nothing. It was an opinion, not something enforceable. In doing it the UN went against their own Charter. In the end the required number of Yes's for partition only came about after much blackmail and bribery. The UN refused to make it binding even though the Zionists were demanding this. The UN vote resulted in mass killing of Palestinians as the Zionists began clearing the land for the bigger state they wanted. A US/UK delegation of experts had reported this would be the result of Partition and warned that this should not happen. The UN were discussing putting Palestine into trusteeship when the Zionists declared the State of Israel.

 

So you are going to vote us out of existance Alexa ?, how far will you take your anti Israeli approach and to what end ?

 

That is not what I said at all. Please do not lie about what I said. I reported how things went on the UN. I have been studying the creation of the State of Israel for the past few weeks since I told you I would give you a full answer concerning another post. Please deal with what I said, not making up what I did not say.

 

I didnt lie, I asked you a question about your opinions, you claim the idea of Israel and its creation were a sin and it has no intention to make peace with the Palestinians, so Im asking where does that lead you ? how can you recognize the rights of Jews/Israelis required for peace when you obviously deny them ? and if peace is not your objective - what is ?

 

As usual you got your facts backwards.
Out of the 170 stabbings, 10 shooting and 10 car ramming, only 65 were killed. I'd say Israeli police shows remarkable restraints.

 

I agree thou in some cases there was an obvoius "verify death" that Im not entirly in favour of, those 14 +16 girls were shot in panic or hate Im not sure but it could have been diffrent, then again I wasnt there to judge ........

 

Not opinions. Facts which can be backed up. Reality. I could say you saying facts are opinions is a lie - at the least it is not dealing with the issue turning it into a personal bait/attack/issue. It is suggesting something which was not said rather than dealing with what was said - a well known ploy for deflection. (I do appreciate that 'lie' was not accurate and was coming on to change that)

quote and link as I have never said that

I do agree with that but that has nothing to do with what you were replying to. Try to stay on topic.

See above and stop trying to deflect from the information given.

My remarks and back up were concerning the concept that a) European Jews have the right to Palestine because the Christian God ordered it and b) That the UN's vote on Partition was a mandate for partition. You are not dealing with the issues at hand. Rather you are turning this into a bait/personal attack on me. Please deal with the issues raised. They can be backed up.

Again you are implying a lie. A just peace has always been my objective. Deal with the issues. I do not have a day to waste on this deflection/personal attack palaver.

 

I just asked you a simple question about your opinions on where does the anti -Israeli approach lead you - to what end? and you accuse me of attacking you....

About the "facts" you gave, the UN wouldnt make the resulotion if the Brits wouldnt announce they would leave, it was a resolution in distress and the Jews that acted upon it broke no law, the acceptance of Israel in the UN was the legal binding act that the Arabs should have respected under law, or not and accept the outcome.

European Jews had rights in Palestine because the Ottomans allowed it and later on because Europeans Jews were refugees and the Palestinian Jews took them in for humanitarian reasons and under "Jewish home" promise that was given to them by the mandate holder, Arabs also migrated from Jordan and Syria for work in Palestine, suppose to show no ethnic had any rights to oppose migration on the other.

We talked about al this before many times. we disagree on that hence I moved on to ask your personal opinion, no malice inteded just to understand what your objective is from denying Israeli rights, I know that some posters here deny Palestinian rights and they do so to deny them from a state, I disagree with that but I understand their line, what's yours ? if the question does not offend you.

 

'To the victor the spoils' and quite right too. in my book. Don't want to forfeit your territory? Don't invade anyone else's.

 

If that is true, why do you suppose that the Israelis still glorify admitted and proud terrorist murderers like Begin and Sharon? They actually name schools and parks after terrorists. What's up with that?

 

Not opinions, history. I am not the subject of this thread or any other in this forum. However I have already made my position clear time and again. I want a just solution to the situation.

I agree with that. The British let the Palestinians Arabs down and that is obvious from the archives. They left because they could not cope with the terrorism, knowing what was going to happen to the Palestinian Arabs - also knowing that the Arab armies would come in, according to the British Archives the last hope for the Palestinian Arabs but that they would be beaten. I think most British people are aware that our country has some responsibility for what has happened. At the same time it is clear that the British knew they would be unable to fulfil their mandate. They however said they would not agree with something which did not have the approval of both the Zionists and the Arabs.

it was a

I appreciate that you being a Zionist Jew look at your position from that of a Zionist Jew. Even on that it should be remembered that many Jews did not support Zionism. Even at this time it was recognised by both non Zionist Jews and most other people who were not Zionist that what Zionists were demanding was at the cost of the indigenous people who had been promised 'self determination'. It may be difficult for you to see that but that is what the situation was.

The original Balfour Declaration in no way intended a Jewish State - it was a disappointment to the Zionists. In reality it was intended to be offering nothing other than the possibility of a 'cultural home'. I will be more than delighted to go into that in depth should you want - life of course also taking my time.


Resolution in distress? It was a non binding resolution. Obviously at the time the plight of Europe's Jews during WW2 was well in people's thoughts and the Zionists exploited this to the full. For example the son of Irish Prime Minister wrote in the spectator in 1960

HADAWI, Bitter Harvest, 38 citation The Spectator London Magazine, July 22nd 1960

Quoted in Against Our Better Judgement -The Hidden History of how the US was used to Create Israel

This is important for you saying 'resolution in distress' as obviously there was the issue of Displaced Person's. This also brings us to one of the points in our previous discussion which has sent me on what is going to be a long journey looking at the history of the area at this time. Zionists stopped several plans which could have resulted in Jews and other Displaced Persons being admitted to various countries.

The Anglo-American Committee, mentioned before, had determined that Palestine could never meet the needs of all Jews and hence other arrangements must be made by the US/UK and other countries for the emigration needs of Jews and other Displaced Persons. Obviously this did not go down well with the Zionists who wanted them all in Palestine/Israel.

Roosevelt believed were though other places where Displaced Person's including Jews could have gone. They had reason to believe that Canada, Australia and the South American countries as well as the US and UK would open their doors. London immediately agreed to take 150,000 - the US agreed to take the same and R was certain that the other mentioned countries would have no problem letting in another 300,000 or so - (The belief was that around 500,000 people were needing a safe country)

This was rejected by the Zionists.

What price Israel 2003 Lilienthal page 27

Morris Ernst was shocked and started going around Zionist organisations trying to get them to change their minds and allow this plan. He recounts being thrown out of parlours of friends and being told he was underestimated the Zionist Movement.

The Zionist attitude resulted that when in Dec 22 1945 President Truman issued that the US should use existing quotas to let in refugees, the President's request that unused quotas to Europeans be included was refused. This meant that the number of Europeans Displaced Persons of which as already said Jews were the most favourably viewsed did not happen. 400,000 people who otherwise would have been admitted to the US were not. I have said more than once that what would have resolved the issue was if the West had offered mass immigration to Jews at this time. Like others I had thought it was the West who refused. It was a great shock to discover that in reality it was the pressure of Zionist which stopped this - although obviously not so surprising when you think about it as this generous offer would have eradicated the need for a Jewish state.

Source What Price Israel - details above.

Now I have to get on with some things and this is requiring me rummaging through books. This however I think deals with point 1. If Zionists had not been against Jewish immigration to Western Countries and South America there would have been no need of a Jewish State, there would not have been as you put it 'distress'

You will remember that I have mentioned before that Finkelstein said that massive pressure was put on Jews in Displacement Camps to say they wanted to go to Israel and that the only reason his parents managed to get to the US was ill health. What I can remember but do not have time to look for the quote at the moment was that in 1947 it was discovered that 80% of Jews in Displacement Camps wanted to move to the US not Palestine and that for some reason it was then too late to change things to allow them in.

I will get to the rest later.

 

Just but secret ?

Yes, that sounds British alright....

If all these Jews were so anti Zionist - there wouldnt be an Israel, it wouldnt win wars and wouldnt last till now, I dont think you realize the commitment it took to create this country, tyo bring Jews from all the world over here and mold them into a united nation, yea sure there were Jews that opposed that as well but you make it sound as if they were the majurity and the Zionists the minority, if that was the case Israel would be destroyed by now.

Perhaps it did perhaps it didnt, I didnt talk about the "state" aspect of it but the "Jewish jome", the least we can take from "Jewish Home" is a home for Jews? Jews can live there ? with certain rights ? what's in that to oppose Holocaust refugees ignoring the humanitarian need?

I didnt say it was binding, I said it was the only think we had to work on in face of British withdrawal, accepting it is no "exploit" by any mean, it was voted upon and accepted in the UN,now the Jews can accept it and it would be within their rights to do so.

Links ? you posted Zionists foiled teh Powers attempts to accept refugees and it wasnt those powers decision at all but a Zionist decision - so -

How can Zionists oppose Britain accepting refugees ? thaey have no say in that, they have no control over the refugees, they have no touch with the refugees, they have no boats - how can the Zionists stop teh US and the UK from accepting refugees ?

Did Lilienthal explain or gave any evidance that it was the Zionists that managed to somehow turn the powers desicion from taking refugees to NOT taking refigees?, or did he just write it was so and that's good enough for you ?

Zionists wanted Jews since before the war that's true but the obvious natural development of the events led some Arab and other anti Israeli "scholars" to accuse Zionists in creating anti sematism, the rise of the Nazis, terror attacks against Jews etc' etc' , as if having a state has another reason if not to protect its ppl.

I think its stupid accusations made out of fear and ignorance, I expect as much from the Arab education, not so much from the European one...

I think Zionists did want Jews in Palestine, I dont see how they could possibly turn a British decision to accept refugees into a rejection, not in UK, not in US and certainly not anywhere in a very hostile Europe, I would like to know how Lilienthal explained that.

The "Distress" I was talking about had nothing to do with the refugees, I meant the fact the Brits were leaving and there was no mandetor in Palestine = chaos, that's the urgent matter and the UN saw it as urget as well.

 

Oh yes they are; their speciality is using Palestinian children as human shields. How brave of the mightiest army in the region.

 

It's the law. Don't like it? Tough.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no 'god'.

 

Fortunately your opinion does not concur with the law.

 

(*)(*)(*)(*) Israelis. What about thousands of murdered Palestinian kids ?