The beginning of the universe

No, this is just not the way exploration of our universe works. You are making stupendous assumptions even about what our universe is - that is, what belongs to it, how it behaves, etc.

Here are some articles written for people who are moderately interested in how our universe REALLY works, chosen to show that the things we know about when we walk around outside are very different from the way our universe actually works:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/something-from-nothing-vacuum-can-yield-flashes-of-light/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-virtual-particles-rea/
http://phys.org/news/2015-01-atoms.html

So, how do particles blink into and out of existence or be in more than one place at a time as ordinary behavior?

Also, we can run trivially easy experiments to show that particles can behave like waves or particles, in fact switching back and forth. Read about the double slit experiment described here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave–particle_duality

We have known this stuff since 100 year ago at the dawn of quantum mechanics.

And, physicists can go on and on with amazing stuff our universe does - mass (such as earth) warping space-time, so that time on our satellites passes at a different rate than it does here where we are closer to the center of earth (thanks, Einstein). The discovery of "dark matter" and "dark energy" which constitute 96% of our universe, but that we can not even see, because it isn't made like the stuff we know about is made - like stars, earth, life, etc.

Believe me, suggesting we know enough to say that there are two options for what came "before" is just plain not the case.

The central principle here is that when we don't know, the correct answer is "We do not know."

 

Nova had a program recently called einsteins mind, fascinating

The counter intuitive idea that time can be distorted
And that we can prove that true

Also the fact that gravity pulls our matter together which forms stars, planets, etc
But apparently dark matter is not pulled together
And dark energy pushes things apart

There is so much that is very strange from what we expect from our everyday experience

It is remarkable that we know as much as we do
But there is no way to begin to gauge what we dont know

 

Transcendentalism Eh? I was always fascinated with eastern religions like Buddhism and Hinduism. As soon as I turned 17 I joined the army and after Basic training and AIT, I got a free trip to Hanoi! Buddha land for sure! While there I tried TM, and later Buddhism. I learned some beautiful things from TM and its founder in the USA, (actually his books, not from him in person) So I was doing the same thing you are but I dont feel religion constrained me. Instead thousand years of study were already done for me and I free to learn new stuff! There is a lot of wisdom in every religion I learned about and practiced. So far I have tried LeVay Satanism, Hinduism, Witchcraft, and others but landed on a form of Christianity that I feel is the way Christianity should be practiced. Well I should say its the only form of Christianity that I wasn't walking around talking to myself, lol!

lastly I have noticed that some people have serious difficulty to visualize some concepts of the supernatural world or even the many dimensional
realms described by science or religion. Jung helped me with that as well as learning the basics of QM, which have strange non intuitive properties.

~~GBWY~~

 

I'm well aware of the content in the articles you provided. However, there is a clear difference between something popping out of vacuum (a place of extremely low energy) and something popping out of absolute nothing.

Yes, particles blink in and out of existence. They blink in and out of something. But where is the evidence that they pop out of absolute nothing?

 

of course there is option three, which is it has always existed.

 

And which universe always existed?

 

This statement is completely baseless.

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I don't understand the question? there is only 1 universe that we know of.

 

How so?

We know of two universes that operate(d) differently. One is continuously expanding, and one was in a state of extreme density.

 

I'm not sure what you don't understand? the claim you made is not based on fact.

That isn't two universes. that is one universe in 2 different states.

 

Given the connection between time and mass, I'd suggest you don't even know what EITHER of those mean outside our universe. There is no reason to believe that even the basic physics we know has any application outside our own universe.

Yet, you try to make progress through some Socratic method while totally ignoring the scientific method that has proven useful in exploring our universe, and which depends on evidence.

I just don't understand where you think you are going here. It certainly is not science. It does not appear to be religion.

What is it that you are doing?

 

???

It's based on the definition of eternity.

If it's one and the same universe, why would they be in two different states?

 

???

You respond to my assertion that something cannot come from nothing by showing me proof that something can come from something.

 

I did not show you proof of anything at all.

I'm pointing out that we simply do not know much of anything outside of our universe. We don't know stuff like what "mass" might be like or what "time" might be like.

Yet, you want to make assumptions concerning these features that are so dependent on the rules of physics that are INSIDE our universe.

So, no, we do not know. And, thus the correct answer is: "We do not know."

 

OK. So, do you then think it's possible that there is something outside our universe?

 

"Think it is possible"??? Of course I think it is possible, because humans don't have evidence that would support the limitation you speak of.

Evidence.

Again, your question is answered by: We (humans) do not know.

And, the reason is that: We (humans) do not have evidence. (Or, at least, we have incredibly little evidence.)

If you want to make a statement about "before the big ban", or "outside our universe", or anything else, you need to show some evidence.

I really believe I've answered this and other of your questions.

So, please answer mine: Where is it that you are going with this?

 

Well, if you think something exists outside the universe, then the question becomes "how did it get there?" Did it pop out of nothing, or did something being it into existence?

As to your question, the point I'm trying to make is that you're always going to be left with the same options.

 

Only to the small minded. For if something is not known, then the possibilities are infinite.
Course that's been said to you ad nauseum.

 

Because life is dynamic and not static.

 

Infinite, and yet you can't name a SINGLE alternative.

 

Huh? What does life to do with plain energy?

 

It changes constantly.
Energy is life. Life is energy.

 

Living organisms are life.

 

You are trying to leave physics and play word games that can not be supported by our current evidence and understanding.

My guess is that you are trying to support some notion preconceived by religion.

 

I don't know how you came to this conclusion.

 

Without energy, there is no life.