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The beginning of the universe

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by haribol, Nov 27, 2015.

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  1. godisnotreal

    godisnotreal Well-Known Member

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    there are many alternatives. a multiverse, for example. quantum foam, etc. none require god.
     
    godisnotreal, Dec 5, 2015
    #51
  2. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Uh, no it isn't.



    the same reason numerous other things can and are in more than one state?
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #52
  3. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    And as I keep reminding you, there isn't only 2 options.
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #53
  4. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Give me one example.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fine, 3. But only 1 option makes logical sense.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #54
  5. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    You're not getting it. It doesn't matter if there are a hundred universes. The question is that did these universes 1) pop out of nothing; 2) always existed; or 3) created by God?

    You are always going to have to refer to these alternatives, no matter the scenario.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #55
  6. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Water





    I agree. And that would be it has always existed.
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #56
  7. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    And how does water change states?

    Be specific.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #57
  8. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Solid, liquid, gas
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #58
  9. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    What makes water turn into gas?
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #59
  10. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    What makes the sky blue?
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #60
  11. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Again, what makes water turn into gas?
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #61
  12. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Again, what makes the sky blue?
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #62
  13. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Come back when you can answer the question.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #63
  14. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Come back when you want to stop trolling. You asked for an example and was given one.

    The cause of the different states isn't relevant.
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #64
  15. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Isn't relevant??? If water needs a cause to change states, then so does the singularity.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #65
  16. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    The universe itself could be causing the change in states or form. Have you not thought of that?
     
    Object227, Dec 5, 2015
    #66
  17. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    That's illogical, unless you think the universe has a mind of its own.

    "I will now be in an incredibly dense state. I will now expand."
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #67
  18. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No.

    so what? I know you are aching to say "God did it" but you can't substantiate that claim.
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #68
  19. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    Well, God is the only alternative that makes sense here.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #69
  20. Object227

    Object227 Well-Known Member

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    You are denying the very possibility (high probability I would say) that all entities act according to their nature and that the nature of the material that makes up the universe causes it to act without any need of consciousness or intelligence. Watch nature on a regular basis and you see actions caused by inanimate entities all the time.
     
    Object227, Dec 5, 2015
    #70
  21. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    I made a mistake. I should have argued the following:

    If the current expanding universe is of the same "nature" as the singularity (both are the same universe), then why are they in different states?
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #71
  22. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    No it isnt.
     
    rahl, Dec 5, 2015
    #72
  23. Goomba

    Goomba Well-Known Member

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    What else does? Let me guess: we don't know.
     
    Goomba, Dec 5, 2015
    #73
  24. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    yA'LL are doing pretty good but I think everyone is missing the big question. Note Einstein as did most scientists of his day thought the universe was eternal AND static (unchanging). Actually it was worse than that but I want to stay on topic. So here it is.... So the BQ is WHAT CAUSED THE SINGULARITY THAT CREATED THE BIG BANG TO COME INTO EXISTENCE? We are talking about the first universe that was created.....er. began to exist, myself I dont think the multiverse will be proved true. What about the standard model Big Bang theory?? Well, every since the theist implications of the current big bang theory became clear not long after the BB was accepted, nearly every atheist cosmologist, astrophysicists theoretical physicist, astronomer worth his salt feverishly began trying to discredit it! WHAT THEIST IMPLICATIONS DOES THE BB THEORY HAVE you may be asking~ Well lets begin with one already mentioned which is; WHAT CAUSED THE SINGULARITY THAT CREATED THE BIG BANG TO COME INTO EXISTENCE? You may say it was a random event it just happened....no, if you beleive that why cant a unicorn appear? Or a pink elephant? reva
     
    RevAnarchist, Dec 5, 2015
    #74
  25. RevAnarchist

    RevAnarchist New Member Past Donor

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    With all due respect I dont think you can do that. 'Nature' is not a valid word for how you are using it.
     
    RevAnarchist, Dec 5, 2015
    #75
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