A question of trust of fellow citizens

background checks prevent felons from buying guns.

it also prevents people wanted for murder, rape, child molestation, robbery, burglary, from buying a gun.

the only people who oppose this, are the criminals wanting guns

 

They aren't buying guns from legitimate sources:
http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/...crooks-get-guns-from-pals-dont-keep-them-long

 

Criminals aren't buying guns from legitimate sources. They are buying them from criminal associates. See the U. of Chicago study.

 

What stores do you think gang members are waltzing into and filling out 4473s?

Even if the DID, and they got denied, they would be allowed to just walk right out the door in the vast majority of cases.

 

right now, criminals can buy guns from private sellers without a background check.

criminals LOVE this

 

And do you think the guys selling guns to criminals now will start doing background checks? In most cases they already know they're selling weapons to criminals and breaking the law.

Even if the law is passed, how would you catch someone already in the illegal gun business, who only deals with contacts they trust?

 

But they aren't doing it, legally. They are buying from people that they know (and who know that they are criminals). There is not a big problem with private law-abiding gun sellers selling to criminals. See the U. of Chicago study I referenced.

 

there is no logical nor rational reason to oppose background checks.

 

We're not opposed to it, we're just saying it's not going to catch criminals. It's been a year and it hasn't worked in Washington state. Not one arrest, not one conviction.

The only thing it COULD do, is catch the mentally ill, if they tried to buy a gun legally. That's also problematic because of HIPPA mental health laws.

 

Except that they don't work, and primarily just harass law-abiding gun owners. I can live with the NICS check. I don't think that everybody should be allowed access to the NICS system, though.

Criminals buy guns from people they know, not from random gun owners, gun stores or gun shows. Nothing is going to change that. Increased background checks just make buying guns more of a hassle for law-abiding people. In fact, I read one UBC law that would require a background check to allow your buddy to shoot your gun at a range.

 

What would be your concern about opening up NICS for people that want to use it?

 

Those liberal Founding Fathers knew that they couldn't trust everyone to "act correctly" so they devised a system of government with checks and balances.

Were they using a "collectivist mindset" when they did that or were they simply being prudent knowing that there will always be those that don't 'act correctly"?

Same thing applies to virtually every activity. Without the Law of the Land this nation would be a dystopia much like Somalia with armed gangs terrorizing the local populations.

Yes, the majority of responsible gun owners do act correctly but there is that subset that don't therefore We the People need to use the Law of the Land to ensure that they are brought to justice when they don't act correctly.

And sometimes that means putting in place reasonable and practical regulations to ensure that lethal weapons don't end up in the wrong hands.

If it is constitutional to demand that someone must produce a valid ID in order to exercise their right to vote then why should they not have to go through a background check before obtaining a gun?

Same principle applies.

 

No one believes that your "reasonable and practical" regulation will ensure that lethal weapons won't make it into the hands of the wrong people.
Until you can "ensure" that guns won't make it into the wrong hands by making laws that effect law abiding folks, we are not interested.

 

Ronstar, I can pass background checks that you wouldn't even dream of trying to pass. My credit score exceeds 800. My security clearance is way beyond what you could imagine. By no stretch of the imagination can you call me a criminal... UNLESS - UNLESS my Right to Privacy annoys you so much that you would call me a criminal for not asking your permission to do that which I already had a Right to do.

I'm not a criminal right now; however, I will not now nor in the future ask for your permission via the government (nor any other mortal man) to buy or sell a weapon. So, in your eyes, that makes a criminal.

History has shown that weapons confiscations begin with registration and registration is preceded by creating different classes of society. Namely, we have created so many "criminals" that large segments of society are not supposed to have unalienable Rights.

Background checks cannot be enforced without gun registration. That is what you're really after. Many of us won't play your game. We can appeal to the higher powers, but at the end of the day, if we have to choose between our Liberty and keeping our families safe, then your side will lose.

"The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." Ayn Rand

>>>MOD EDIT Flamebait Removed<<<

 

sure they can

we will simply require that all sales get a background check, the buyer and seller keep a copy of a receipt of the transaction listing name of buyer & seller, date of transaction, and sereal number of firearm.

NICS keeps a copy of the transaction in a database only to be accessed when a crime is committed and a gun is retreived for which the buyer/seller cannot find their transaction receipt.

and the law will also be enforced through random ATF stings and when a gun is recovered during/after a crime is committed.

no need to keep a list of all persons that possess firearms and all firearms they possess.

this is just the hyperbolic fear-mongering of the NRA's hoplophiles.

 

Tell us more about these random ATF stings.

 

they go through newspaper, online, and magazine ads making believe they are trying to buy a gun through private sales, and ask if a background check is needed.

if the seller says "no", they arrange to buy the gun without a check, and if the sale goes through without the check, they bust the seller.

 

We can pass a law that extends background checks to all private sales, without creating registration or a database of all guns owned.

We will simply require that all gun sales get a background check, the buyer & seller keep a copy of a receipt of the transaction listing name of buyer & seller, date of transaction & serial number of firearm.

NICS keeps a copy of the transaction in a database only to be accessed when a crime is committed and a gun is retreived.

law will be enforced through random ATF stings of online, newspaper, magazine ads for private sales, to make sure private sellers are running background checks.

and the FBI will check to make sure all guns recovered from crimes had a background check performed, by checking the serial # with the NICS database to make sure a check was performed by the owner of the gun.

no need to keep a list of all persons that possess firearms and all firearms they possess.

we can even require a warrant be issued for each gun sale record accessed in the NICS system, only to be accessed when a crime is committed and the owner has no receipt of the sale NICS check.



---I just sent the following email to my Senators Gillibrand and Schumer.

 

Such a law can certainly be enacted. But it can never be enforced without a nationwide registry of every single firearm currently owned.

And precisely how is the above not an example of a nationwide registry?

 

as I have stated, we do not need to register every single existing gun in the USA.

we only need NICS to keep records of all future background checks,

they will hold records with the following info: name of seller, name of buyer, date of NICS check, serial # of gun.

thats it.

this data will only be accessed when a gun is used in a crime, and the owner nor seller has their receipt of the NICS check.

 

There is no problem. Unless I don't use NICS when I conduct my private transaction. Once I sell it, it can never be traced back to me.
It's the same as if I sell my used lawn mower in a private transaction. Once it is out in the world, it can never be traced back to me.

 

if you sell a gun to a stranger, how can you NOT perform a background check??????

you want to take a chance you're selling a gun to someone wanted for murder or raping a child?