22 Israelis murdered 180 wounded during the last two months

Please see my replies to your previous comments.

 

1) I'm not ignorent to anything. You said that "Palestinian" state is a fact in our current reality. If so, then what are it's borders?
2) I'm not nitpicking 1 sentence, but I'm using all of what Article 80 says.
3) And my source debunks your claims that Israel drain "Palestinians", by showing that Israel is actually trasfering 2 twice the agreed-upon amount.
4) Already replied to such claim. Please read: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=433636&page=35&p=1065615686#post1065615686
5) Already replied to such claims. Please read previous comments.

 

What preceeded what ? Settler terror or Palestinian terror ? Arab attacks or "Plan D" ?

Arab stupidity and Liberal naivity are not an excuse, you can faint on each other and cry rivers of tears but if you send ppl to kill us we will burn their crops, lvl their houses and if possible kill them on sight, that said and ignoring racists that grew up in such reality, most Arabs and Jews have good lives in Israel and in some places (area C) in the WB, co-existance is possible only when Westerner's democracies are leading it.

 

I know what I wrote.

I never said that the West Bank is part of Israel, I said that the West Bank is part of the Land of Israel, which is quite different and quite spot on, you also agreed with me.

I showed you the actuall Article from the actuall UN website, and there the Articuel states that until the Mandate will be concluded nothing shell be constructed the rights of any states or people.

The rulings were applied until they've been fulfilled, and once Elon Moreh Ruling and the rest of such rulings been fulfilled, then they cannot be valid once again.
Settling is one of the rights that were granted to the Jews in 1922 and Article 80 protects, as I showed here.

I never said it is a problem.

So they do enjoy the fulfillment of a political rights by having a political organization that represents them.

It's not only represent them, but also is responsible of taking care of them, in the areaa where it controls.

According to Oslo, Area C is a territory where Israel controls.

The Arabs enjoy civil and political rights. As I showed you.

Yeah. Lets follow what the law says.

There are no seperate roads for vehicles, and regarding the seperate services in the West Bank. then it's Oslo creation that the PA will treat the "Palestinains" in the areas where it controls, regarding inner issues (which means hospitals, eduation, jobs etc). BUT also you have Arabs that come from the West Bank to Israel to get treatment, jobs.

 

No you dont.

The Land of Israel you here refer to stretches across the middle east, and is irrelevant.

Indeed, and yet you didnt take account of the UN charter which supercedes it and demands equal rights for all, not for some.

The rulings were not applied. The Mandate remains unfulfilled. Until they are fulfilled, no one has any rights until everyone has equal rights.

Then why ask about this one Israeli arab?

Nope, representations are not full political rights.

It controls by occupation. Settling occupied territory is illegal, no exceptions for anyone.

They cannot enjoy full political and civil rights under occupation. As I showed you.

What it says according to whom?

Indeed, full cooperation was agreed and implemented from Oslo. None of the occupied territory was ever ceded over to settlers from Israel.

 

A dishonest neoZionist? I don't believe it.

 

I do.

The Land of Israel is from the river to the sea, and greater Israel is icnluding also Trans-Jordan.

Right, and Israel is respecting the Arabs rights, as I showed here.

The rulings on settlements like Elon Moreh ruling were been fulfilled. And if the Arabs have more evidences that shows settlements were built on private lands, they can easily show it to court and let the judges decide, but since they havent done it recently then I dont see the problem.

Because he was Arafat's advisor, and he met him numerous of times.

So there is no Arab Autonomy in the West Bank?

Not according to international law that protects the rights that were granted to the Jews, which among them was settling in the Land of Israel.

Israel does not control Area A nor B, but yes Israel has a responsibility over the security issues in Area B, as was agreed upon in Oslo.
Do you ignore Oslo Accords?

Paragraph 1 of Article 80 says:

Source: http://www.un.org/en/sections/un-cha...xii/index.html

Which means that until the Mandates would concluded nothing shell be constructed in or of itself to alter in any manner the rights of any states of people or the terms of the existing international insturments, and since the document of the Mandate wasnt concluded, then nothing shell be needed to constructed or alter the rights that were given by the Mandate.

Oslo allowed settlers to keep living there until future agreement that needed to be signed 5 years after the signing on Oslo Accords.

 

If you did you would know what youve been talking about and what you are trying to say.

No thats a later intepretation used by the founders of Israel. Moreover the land of Israel is irrelevant. Jews were never given the right contruct a jewish state over all Palestine.

No they are not, as I showed here.

Individual rulings are not a wider settlement, nor are they rulings that apply across more than solely Israeli law. Therefore the mandate is unfulfilled. Public/ private lands are irrelevant.

Yes, so you do have a problem with him as an Israeli arab without Palestinian citizenship not having rights of settlement in Palestine.

There is no complete arab autonomy in the west bank.

International law does not protect the rights that were granted to Jews to settle anywhere in Palestine and consider themselves Israelis while the same treatment is not granted to arabs or palestinians.

Oslo accords are agreements on governing arrangements. Thats all they are. They are not a bestowing of full political autonomy.

Yes, but who is say what exactly that means? You?

Indeed, it did not accord Israel sovereignty over their settlements.

 

Why did he do that do you think?

 

You are ignorant, because you refuse to accept it's a state when it's a fact that the UN made it so.

Yes you are. Your ENTIRE argument is all about 1 line in article 80, ignoring everything else of the UN Charter. Using the entire UN Charter shows that you're wrong. That means you're ignorant when it comes down to the UN Charter.

Your source is not about how much Israel and its Jews drain Palestine, and how the water is distributed. Hence nothing is debunked.

My point 4 remains to infinity. Your experts don't get to trump the experts of UN, the UNSG and the ICJ ruling.

No you didn't. You're ignorant about the civil rights of the Palestines.

 

Right, I know what I said.

I never said "all of the Land of Israel". "All the Land of Israel" is icnluding Trans-Jordan, and to contruct a Jewish state in Trans-Jordan will never happen.
The Place where a national home for the Jewish people needs to be re-constitute is in the Land of Israel axcluding Trans-Jordan (which nmeans it includes the West Bank).

I showed that they do, while you only claimed they dont.

Right, the Mandate wasnt been fulfilled and needs to be fulfilled. Therefore the world cant refer the settlements as "illegal" nor the Jewish presence in the West Bank as such.

Ahmend Tibi has rights in "Palestine", by being an regular citizen that can buy anything he want, do whatever he please to do (as long it's legal) etc. , like I have the same rights.

There is Arab autonomy in the areas that been agreed upon which will be under such autonomy. Today the Arabs in those areas are controling themselves.

I already replied to such claim. Please re-read my previous comments.
Please stop repeating claims that were already been replied to.

Oslo created the PA so it will govern the Arabs in the areas that were agreedupon the PA will have control over. Hence, the Arabs in such areas are controling themselves.

It's all according to International law. The international law says so.

Oslo didnt forbid the existance of the settlements in the West Bank.

 

So if it is a state, what are the borders of such state?

I'm not nitpicking 1 sentence, but I'm using all of what Article 80 says.

My source is debunking your claim about "Israel drains the Palestinains", because it shows that Israel is transfering water to the Arabs, and thus doing the opposite action of draining.

Already replied to such claims. Please read: http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=433636&page=35&p=1065615686#post1065615686

Yes I did.

 

no, your ignoring what Article 80 says.

twice you have posted false text of what Article 80 says

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the Mandate was fulfilled when a jewish national home was created in Palestine.

 

I qouted ARticle 80 from the UN Website.

The UN has never terminated the document of the Mandate, and thus the document wasnt been fulfilled, because if it been fulfilled then the UN would have terminated it.

 

The Land of Israel does not include the Negev.

so when will you give up the Negev?

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the UN terminated the Mandate agreement and the mandate was fulfilled.

 

According to the Armistic lines from 1949, the Negev is part of Israel territory.

The UN never terminated the document, I already showed you that.

 

with all due respect, this is a lie.

 

It is a fact, not a lie.

 

no, it is not.

it is 100% dishonest to claim that the Mandate for Palestine agreement is still in effect.

it was concluded/terminated by the UN, and no amount of legalize games and sophistry can change this.

the UN knows this. the ICJ knows this. even the Israeli Supreme Court knows this.

so stop playing games

 

The British Mandate was indeed concluded, while the document of the Mandate isnt.

 

so the UN Palestine Commission was never concluded?????????????

LOL!!!!!

 

The termination of the UN Palestine Commission was contingent on the fulfillment of Resolution 181, but, of course, Resolution 181 was never been fulfilled.

 

Right, clearly you dont have a clue what youve said.

You said Land of Israel, you made no qualification to exclude Transjordan or the biblical definitions, again showing you dont really know what you want to say.

Anyway, of course, a national home for the Jewish people has already been constructed in Israel east of Jerusalem - there is no need whatsoever to include the West Bank in that.

LOL, no I showed you that they do not by using the entire charter. You claimed they do by using a selective piece of text you didnt even have the honesty to quote correctly.

Of course it can refer to settlements as illegal, while arab rights are infringed in the unfulfilled Mandate Jewish rights have no validity either. But at least you admit now that the mandate needs to be fulfilled.

Mr Tibi has no automatic rights in the West Bank, he has rights in Israel, which is no longer Palestine. You also have no right of settlement in the West Bank, or East Jerusalem or Gaza or the Golan Heights or the Shatila farms.

There is not complete arab automony in any area A,B or C. Therefore equal political rights are not established.

International law does not protect the rights that were granted to Jews to settle anywhere in Palestine and consider themselves Israelis while the same treatment is not granted to arabs or palestinians.

I have already explained how and why.

There is not complete arab automony in any area A,B or C. Therefore equal political rights are not established.

Acording to whom? You?

Oslo didnt permit Israeli annexation of territory either.

 

The UN Palestine Commission was the governmental body which inherited responsibility of the Mandate from the British.

The UN General Assembly relieved the Palestine Commission from their responsibilities over Palestine, thereby concluding the Mandate.

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this is a lie

 

Yes they relieved the "Palestine Commission" from their responsibility because Resolution 181. Hence, the termination of this commission was contingent on the fulfillment of Resolution 181, but this Resolution was never been fulfilled.

This is according to the source you provided.