I hope a GOD exists but I am not holding my breath!

Logically we can deduce that, if God does exist, he is not revealing his existence to you for some reason, at least at this time.
Or possibly he is doing things to suggest his existence, but you are wilfuly choosing not to see it.

Something to point out, you do not need to be certain of the existence of God to believe in God.

 

OK.....although I respect anyone's choice to believe in a religion or not....your statement is anything but logical.

If fact it is completely illogical.

You stated to me...."Logically we can deduce that, if God does exist, he is not revealing his existence to you for some reason, at least at this time.
Or possibly he is doing things to suggest his existence, but you are wilfuly choosing not to see it."...end quote.

Exactly HOW can you LOGICALLY DEDUCE THIS!!!???

You cannot.

In fact it is contrary to every possible existing tenet of LOGIC.

SOME PEOPLE DO not have to be certain of the existence of a God to believe in a God.

But this in no way logically deduces anything specific to whether a GOD exists or not.

In fact....Probability is highly against a GOD's existence.

AboveAlpha

 

It appears quite logical to me. If God exists, you would know if he wanted you to know.

Hence you do not have to be certain either to believe.
Is there something that makes you so different from these other people?

Correct. However, it does suggest the possibility that God does not need for you to have the certain knowledge of whether he exists or not for you to believe in him. In fact, it might possibly be that in some way the certain knowledge of his existence might make it more difficult for people to believe in him, even though that sounds paradoxical. But that's a complicated subject I am not going to speculate on here.

Probability based on what? Facts? Beliefs?

 

It seems the problem is that you falliciously presume that you need to find proof that God exists before you can believe in him.
In actuality, it's more the other way around, at least from what I have seen and heard from other people.
It's important to make the distinction that "belief in God" is not the same thing as "belief that God exists".

 

Probability based upon mathematical chance.

You keep referring to a GOD as HIM....and why would you ever think a GOD would have gender?


The onus is upon those to are attempting to prove a supernatural event or thing exists...not the other way around.

AboveAlpha

 

Perhaps you do not realize that the pronoun "him" does not necessarily confer a male gender in all situations?
Originally the word was the default pronoun that was commonly used to express both genders, until feminists tried to change the meaning in the 60's (and largely have suceeded it appears).

Agreed. But I will point out that there is no absolute proof that anything exists, it is all a matter of belief, to some extent

 

You do know I am a FEMINIST?

I am an Alpha Male of the highest order but I am a Feminist.

AboveAlpha

 

Its little more than theory that a system could be made more complex. There is nothing that says a system will continually increase in complexity, only that it theoretically could, just as I could theoretically walk through the wall. But the chance that a continuous series of changes could move from a basic elements to life is so improbable that its almost a fairy tale. I see nothing in the literature that this is as mature as you claim.

 

I do not think there is any quantifiably objective way to gauge the degree of order in a system, so these arguments are irrelevent at their core

 

Stop it, you're turning me on !

 

thank your link had appropriate citations to explore.

Interesting that the MIW (many interacting worlds) does not include a wave function. Its based on the premise of trajectories. A rather substantial departure from the standard 'wave form collapse" explanations commonly associated with QM and the hypothesized "standard multiverse" models.

http://journals.aps.org/prx/edannounce/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.040002

And here's a popular science take on an interesting hypothesis, wrt many worlds.

http://journals.aps.org/prx/edannounce/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.040002

the math is beyond me and I struggle with understanding at times, but I tend to stick with it when I am as fascinated by the subject as I am with QM - studying the actual components of physical existence and the behaviors of same.

 

What proof do we have that our mathematics is a valid tool to describe alternative universes and what would be required to prove it ?

 

agreed. thank you.

 

please clarify then. i'm not understanding you.

 

It is interesting that Jesus was said to be the incarnate of God. The word incarnate insinuates a state of conscious, non-existence which through Jesus became flesh. So God was, in the beginning, not considered an entity, It was more of a spirit. I believe that God is in everything, and part of everything, and that IT is not a personal God that will come to save us from our ignorance. I believe in God, and I believe one can become one with God but not in our state of consciousness. Like human beings not being able to comprehend what nothing is, human beings can not conceptualize God because he is everything, except fear.

 

Because mathematics is a language unto itself. It is a valid tool because if the math don't work, the hypothesis is junk. It is a valid tool because it can be used to explain observational data. It is a valid tool because it is the foundation of theoretical prediction.

It is a REQUIREMENT for virtually every scientific hypothesis to be taken as seriously, since lack thereof reclassifies an hypothesis from "science" to "philosophy".

 

What in the world are you talking about???

Our Universe is not a FINITE SYSTEM however is is physically FINITE.

Quantum Evolution is not theory.

Tenets of it are Fusion and Chemical Reaction.

You cannot argue about such things.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully you are a woman.

I tend to have that effect on some people.

AboveAlpha

 

In order to understand the New Form Calculus a person must first understand Multiversal Algebraic Quadratic Equations.

You can easily find this with a search.

You need to first know the Syntax, Symbology, and many other specifics before you can eve begin to understand what I am talking about.

AboveAlpha

 

No, it is not true that I need to understand the math in order for me to even begin to understand what you are talking about. I may not be able to follow the math to conclusion, but that isn't necessary to obtain an understanding of what QM theory and its surrounding hypotheses say.


As to MIW, that appears to be a direct challenge to the "traditional" wave function collapse hypothesis, doesn't it?

 

It is based upon wave function actually being existing Quanta ia all divergent universal states.

But the math is necessary for the proof.

AboveAlpha

 

Ducky, I don't need a tutorial on scientific method. What I want to know is where is this 'observational data' from other universes?

 

I am well aware that the math is necessary for the proof. I leave that to peer review and trust in the process.

Yet MIW directly challenges the accepted "wave function collapse" of MW.
I have twice asked your opinion of it but it seems you'd rather ignore what appears to be a direct challenge to this foundational element of QM.

 

My name ain't ducky.

It seems we were on different wave lengths.

Of course there is no observational data from other universes, which makes the Multiverse family of "theories" nothing more than hypotheses, speculation and philosophical ruminations (albeit with some mathematical support).

There is no method of falsifiability and there are no methods (to date) to observe anything beyond our own reality (supernatural or otherwise).

 

As for me I believe in God and the Bible. I respect everyone's opinion on this issue. My point on this lets say for the sake of a argument there is no God, so when we die that is it end of our life.....................however now lets go the other way God does exist but we deny Him...........so when we die we are sent to Hell and "2 seconds in Hell would change or mind.

 

one does not need to believe in the existence of a GOD to believe in the existence of a hell.