Taxation and wealth

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by ARDY, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    No it wasn't easy to take responsibility for ourselves, it is takes work and drive and education and perhaps if those who did not take advantage of the eduaction afforded them, did not get out of bed everyday and to to work and be a responsible valuable employee and instead choose to whine about and be jealous about that which they do not have worry about being judge by those whose money on which they want to live.
     
  2. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Equal protection of employment at-will laws and unemployment compensation that clears our poverty guidelines would do more than any means tested public assistance program.
     
  3. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    Well the answer from corporations is tossing everyone into a pool, and those who don't drown took personal responsibility.

    Let's vote for Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, or any other Republican, or Democrat, to help the business community eliminate the net recipients from the countries bottom line.

    It appears this logic will win after all, no worries.
     
  4. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    Those who are in positions of power have made it "not easy" to take personal responsibility under an illusion to satisfy their ego, when its really easy to take personal responsibility if one is given the proper tools.

    Congratulations to the strong and prideful who did survive under this oppressive doctrine, but many more didn't.
     
  5. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Should we insist Capitalists find a Capital way to pay for it?

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    Is it immoral to simply Tax the wealthiest into Heaven under our form of Capitalism.
     
  6. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are mistaken. No one tossed you into this pool. The fact that I learned to swim and you did not, doesn't indebt me to carrying you around it.



     
  7. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Killing is often viewed as immoral.



     
  8. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    It's always interesting to read a post like this that ignores the fact that tens of millions of people have fully taken advantage of the education provided and that they get up everyday and work hard but still can't earn a living because we make no provisions where being educated and working hard results in a liveable wage for the workers. A person has to completely ignore reality to hold such an erroneous opinion.
     
  9. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Everyone is tossed into the pool when they become an adult but there's a difference for different people. Some are provided with a life-vest to keep them afloat based upon family wealth while others are not. Still others have a ball and chain wrapped around their neck virtually ensuring they will drown due to racial or other forms of prejudice.

    The pool isn't equal for everyone and everyone eventually gets thrown into the pool.

    We need to ensure that everyone has at least the minimal opportunity to swim and we don't do that today. Even those that know how to swim are often forced to swim underwater and eventually they will drown because they never make it to the surface to get a breath of air.
     
  10. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then God tossed you there, blame Him. No one else made you 18 years old.



     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I don't blame mythical entities for my situations nor thank them for any success I might enjoy. Sorry but I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy or the Boogieman in the closet. I only address reality which some apparently ignore.
     
  12. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, that is how the country is set up and appears to still be going in that direction in the future.

    Enjoy the fruits of your labor.
     
  13. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then blame no one. That works even better.




     
  14. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    So when the government prints money it is creating wealth? Or do you have a different defintion f wealth?
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    It is the same type of person that believes everone has the same opportunities in life and that sucess is just a matter of personal effort.

    Such people can disregard all studies that show decreasing class mobility in the Unted States. Not to mention GINI coefficient studies and endlass data showing increasing wealth inequality.
     
  16. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    That's nonsense. I give credit or assign blame to people that are not mythical entities. For example when my uncle, a top executive at Northrop, contacted the head of a Northrop division and HR was told to hire me I give credit to him. Even though I was qualified as a former supervisor at Lockheed I bypassed the entire hiring process and was given a high paying job working on the B-2 program in 1982. At the sametime when prejudice prevents a qualified person from being hired I blame the hiring manager that allows prejudice to influence their hiring decisions.

    People are responsible and not mythical entities.
     
  17. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I have to agree because anyone that believes there is equality of economic opportunity in America is a complete fool. Equality of economic opportunity simply doesn't exist in the United States and the only why a person can believe it exists is by ignoring all of the facts. Simply being qualified and working hard does not lead to economic success for far to many people in America. The deck is stacked against them and there's no pragmatic means for them to succeed in overcoming the prejudice and economic disadvantage they start out with.

    While I don't agree with much of what Bernie Sanders stands for I do stand along side of him when it comes to his definition of "Democratic Socialist" that I'd have to paraphase from his comments this last weekend. His basic position is that "A person working for a living should be earning a living" and that's about as close to "socialist" as he comes. If we could at least achieve that then we start out with a playing field that's at least equal at the very bottom of the economic ladder. Simply put if you're working you can afford to pay your basic bills without outside (government) financial assistance. What is somewhat amazing to me is that "right-wing economics" doesn't believe that a person should be able to earn a living by getting up and working their ass off everyday so instead we have to provide financial (welfare) assistance so that they can pay their bills.

    That's downright stupid thinking IMO but then of course these are the same people that are being stupid by believing there's equality of economic opportunity in America when we know that doesn't exist based upon every economic study ever done.
     
  18. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Our government doesn't "print" money (expand the money supply). The Federal Reserve that's a government chartered private bank prints money and it does so for the benefit of the banking industry. The expansion of the money supply (i.e. printing money) does not create wealth but it does redistribute the wealth created by the labor of the workers to the wealthy owners of enterprise.

    The expansion of the money supply (i.e. printing money) is a scheme for "robbing the poor to give to the wealthy" by the privately owned US central bank.
     
  19. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sometimes it's neither. Who do you blame for your desire for food, shelter, or the many other things you need or want?



     
  20. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope. It's creating an IOU for future wealth. Money isn't value, it's what we use to mark the promise of value borrowed.

    You give it to a grocer, in exchange for his valuable milk. You got it from your boss in exchange for your valuable work. The money itself isn't value, it's just how we keep track of the value we put in and take out of the economy.



     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So if this "equality of economic opportunity" did exist how would it manifest itself and what would you propose to bring it about? Say a person can't come up with the next best invention and make billions of dollars, should the government hire that person scientist and engineers to to create it for them and then give them the patent? What if the person did not get their free education and take advantage of the economic opportunities afforded them but their neighbor did and is now rich, you believe the government should step in and "equalize" it? I have moved several times, to other states seeking and obtaining economic opportunity because there was not so much where I was living or it was just a good opportunity, what about people who refuse to do such things?

    Opportunity is generally what you make of it or don't make of it and I can think of few countries who offer more such opportunity to more people. I am in sales, industrial sales, commissioned sales, I make my own opportunities and it takes lots of work to do so, sales do not just magically arrive on my desk. I have to travel to do so, many people tell me no way they would do that, so why should they have more "economic opportunity" than me.
     
  22. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    You are technically correct but in reality the Federal Reserve might just as well be part of the government.
     
  23. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    do you not understand that wealth is created and it is practically infinite in its creation
     
  24. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The Question was what is your definition of wealth if it isn't money?
     
  25. TRFjr

    TRFjr Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    no it doesn't. printing money with out that money representing newly created wealth lowers the value of that money because there is more money representing already existing wealth
    so actually printing money with out newly created wealth for it to represent hurts the ones with money not then the ones with out

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    anything with value which could be anything even nontangible things like talent, creativity, ingenuity, intelligence, labor
     

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