The EU wants a superstate, just as Hitler did

Putin's troll Boris Johnson is furious.

 

The EU isn't perfect... But this kind of rethoric is just plain retarded. Boris is a fool, indeed a putin troll, an opportunistic fifth columnist. One of the things whichs bugs me the most is hypocrisy. These people, the anti-eu, anti-immigration, can talk all day about how the love their nation.. but when it comes to the issue of russia, most of them side with Russia against their own country! When Russia threatens your allies, and even your own country, anyone who picks the side of Russia over their allies and own country can not call themselves a real patriot. Boris, and quite frankly much of the euroscpectics, are not real patriots. No real patriots would ever side with the enemy like that, but fifth columnists would, and that's what they are. One's opinion of putin and russia is my litmus test for determening if someone is an traitor or not.

 

Sorry, but when and where Boris Johnson sided with Russia???

And by the way, this "fool" and "putin troll" is one of the most popular politicians in GB. According to polls he would win the London mayor election if he took part.

 

Like the USSR?



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What about USSR?

 

well, it was directed at right wing pro-putinists in general, not specifically boris. Actually, i don't know that much about boris, but enough to know that he's most likely a fool.

it was a superstate.

 

... it included many states. You could have called it a super state. A federation of states.



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United Kingdom is a federation of states. USA is a federation of states. So what?

USSR was a federation only pro forma. Essentially it was absolutely unitary state. USSR included territories and areas which historically were parts of Russian empire for centuries. And USSR has never tried to unite Europe. I think Boris Johnson was talking about Europe.

 

So a federation of states is only Hitler-like if it involves Europe? Poland is in Europe.




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Why not a federal union with the UN?

 

I see the EU as more of a guild, than that of a "superstate". It's an attempt for Europe to be like the US, with its 50 States. The problem of course, lies in the fact that the States are sub-sect of One Nation, while this an attempt of various nations to be a sub-sect of the "union"? That requires the various European States to give up their political ideology(as only Europe has a very romantically beautiful, but violent past) as well as to agree to a common goal.

That they rely on autocrats, rather than a true voting process is another thing which promotes the Euroskeptics to want to leave the EU. IMO, I've always said that humanity needs a hierarchy it can respect. If the US were an EU Member State, the US could unify the European members, the US would enjoy expanded markets and opportunities for all.

The US will be the lynchpin that Europe is missing.

 

United Kingdom is not a federation of states. It is one state. A union of nations, just one state. Just one kingdom.

 

The UN is in New York. It's already part of the union.

 

No.
Hitler was trying to unify an identity, not an economic policy. Who is this Boris Johnson? Hopefully he's not still in his office.

 

There are differences in culture, too.

I discussed this idea with a relative and her husband who live in one of the smaller EU nations - that is, the idea of the EU merging over some period of decades to form a union more like the US.

She and her husband were shocked that I would even say such a ridiculous idea. While that is two people who probably share a view, they easily defended their opinion.

Remember that today the big issue is whether the Brits decide to LEAVE.

European nations have elections just like we do, by the way. And, if you are commenting on the parliamentary system, I'd point out that when we set up governments, we choose parliamentary systems, NOT our system.

 

Jesus christ you can say that again!! There's only one 'opportunistic fifth columnist' around here and that's the traitor Cameron and those in cahoots with him; he's putting the failed project ahead of his own country, and the next thing would be (if we don't get the hell out of it) we'll be in serious (*)(*)(*)(*) just like your country, Sweden, is. Do you wish for us what you've got? Is it because if we remain we'd then have to take our allocation of 'refugees', meaning that you won't have to take them? I'd like to know what your weird agenda is. And I'm (*)(*)(*)(*)ed it I know why you should think the idiot Johnson is pro-Putin. WTF has Putin got to do with any of this?

 

Someone who has 'had greatness thrust upon him', that's who.

 

It's just a figurative language. Why would the UK be part of the EU which is dominated and led by the Germans? If others are prepared to take orders from the Germans it is their problem. The German economic domination of the continent resembles their military domination of Europe prior to WWII. I'll vote for a Brexit. Let others take orders from the Germans.

 

The EU is seen to be many things, and people want it to be many different things.. There are those who want it to be a superstate, that the individual countries lose their sovereignity and become like US states. And there are those who see it more as a voluntary guild, with close cooperation between sovereign countries. There is an issue of the degree of centralisation, but this has little to do with wheter it's "democratic". Any country must, in order to be functional, have a central government strong enough to overrule local government on certain issues. So if you want an actual EU-country, it follows that individual countries must lose power and ultimately sovereignity to brussels. This has nothing to do with "democracy". US states can't have their own armies or monetary policies for example. There are things which the federal government alone can do. It has to do with practicality, not democracy.

The EU is largely dysfunctional because successful integration requires a certain amount of centralisation. What usually happens is that countries can agree to some aspects of an integration proposal -usually those that are purely beneficial and come at no cost- but they reject the parts of the proposal which are essential to making it actually workable. For example, with schengen the EU could easily get countries to agree to the good part -free movement of people and goods- but it didn't succeed in getting a common EU border agency with the authority needed to make schengen workable. The euro is failing because the EU doesn't have enough power to make sure all countries follow the rules.

Ironically, euroscpectics then point to these EU failures as proof that integration isn't working, while in reality they are failing because there hasn't been enough integration. Going halfway doesn't work. You have to cede power to brussels in order for these things to work, but european countries mostly just want to get free stuff and not pay anything for it. That's why it doesnt work so well.

Euroscpecticism does unfortunately often go hand in hand with pro-putinism these days. Since I see putin as an enemy to europe, pro-putinism is tantamount to treason. I don't think the EU is perfect. There are tons of things I would change with it. But, I realise that european countries have common goals, values, and interests, and in order to be stronger in the world we need to work together. There are flaws, but when faced with an external enemy there is nothing more treasonous and unpatriotic than to undermine your own side. If you like your own country but dislike the EU, if you at this time undermine the EU you are aiding Putin and therefore undermining your own country, because putin is an enemy. The EU is at a crisis right now, and this is the worst of all times to further undermine it.

 

The EU would have worked if it was only a union of Germanic states since their cultural values and standards are similar... in that they are community minded in deference to the more family oriented and individualistic Latin and Eastern European cultures.

Since the system of the northern European nations is based on an inherent communal economic prosperity, and they see others as falling short of what they perceive as being superior standards... they feel they must be imposed on others. What we have now is Germany becoming Germany once again, and taking on a master to serf role under the corporate god of 'globalism'... which is nothing more than 'control' and the dependency of one state upon another. It's evil from its outset, and reminiscent of the Soviet Union with its loss of individual freedoms and cultural identities.

 

then don't be a hypocrite.

 

Half of European states are mere German colonies. Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, the Baltic states, Greece (subjugated) etc...etc...all get orders from Berlin. All those countries have become satellites without any freedom to make their own decisions. Some of us remember life before EURO. Much better quality of life. I miss Italian lira, Spanish pesetas, French Franc etc...etc...

 

I think that most people would "percieve" honesty, work ethic, and meritocracy to be superior to corruption, laziness, and nepotism... It's not just "different", it's superior. Once, southern europe was ahead of northern europe, and the south civilized the north. Now it is the opposite, and it's the south that needs to learn from the north. Stop struggling, just accept and adopt these germanic customs, just like we once adopted your greco-roman customs. Rome was successful because they were honest about what worked and what didn't. When they saw something useful from another culture they adopted it for themselves. A culture which refused all outside influence and insisted on their own superiority was never successful. Just look at china and japan historically.

 

It's Hitler-like if it involves the whole Europe. I suppose Boris meant that. Poland became a part of Russian empire accidentally, it was a result of Napoleon's invasion.

 

yeah, because Russia didn't partition poland prior to napoleon together with prussia and austria... that never happened...