Bernie Asked About Failures of Socialism in Venezuela and Refuses to Comment

I've never heard Bernie claim the US should be more like Venezuela. I have heard him mention Scandinavian countries, like Denmark. I would also say that the government changes and policies he proposes are far more like the democratic socialism of Denmark, than those of Venezuela....

But of course, since this thread was started by a right winger, facts have no relevance to an angry rant based upon delusions and outright lies.

 

List the 20 poorest countries in the world, every single one of them are not socialist countries, they are all capitalist. Please, tell me all the socialist programs in Afghanistan or Liberia, or wherever. The 20 poorest countries in world is a list of failed capitalist states.

Let me add, capitalism is not some magic solution. Capitalism is far from perfect. The USA used to have very unregulated capitalism, in the robber baron days. You want to see what pure capitalism looks like in the USA, go back to the 1890's.... We would have people working 80 hour weeks to barely survive in company housing. We would have children working in mines and sweatshops. This country realized that capitalism is a tool, an excellent way to allocate goods and services, but is not perfect. It needs to be harnessed like a tool to take advantage of it, and also to keep it from harming things when not controlled.... So the country passed labor laws, 40 hour weeks and overtime, child labor laws, minimum wage, occupational safety rules. The country softened capitalism with socialist programs like social security and medicare. These laws, regulations, and programs are all not pure dog eat dog capitalism and have made the country a better place for all.

So while I am a strong believer in capitalist markets, they are a tool, not an end in itself. Nor are they perfect. And unless you think the robber baron days of this country, where you most likely would be far worse off, is utopia, then your misguided belief that there are no failed capitalist states is utter nonsense......

 

I agree with everything you said

 

You listed theocratic countries, not democratic republics. Venezuela is a democracy, and you trying to spin this corrupt government is laughable

 

Socializing costs is what socialism is Always good for.

Here is what our friends in Venezuela should be investing in:

[video=youtube;rTsH7B1H11k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTsH7B1H11k[/video]

 

Do you know the difference between a political system and an economic system? ...I was replying to a post that said there were no failed capitalist states... Capitalism is an economic program, It does not need any particular political system, such as democracy. Capitalism is about how goods and services are allocated using markets, it doesn't matter if the government is theocratic, democratic, or communist.

 

There are no failed capitalist states period. Nice rant though.

 

It's like I've said several times, Bronco... Bernie Sanders is an honest, ethical, forthright person who has integrity. BUT, the poor man understands absolutely nothing about economies and what makes them work. That said, I'd still rather have him in the White House than that deceitful, conniving, reckless (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) he's running against. Hilarity Clinton has no real understanding of how economies are supposed to work, either -- and she is dishonest, has no ethics, manipulates and hides everything of importance, and has no integrity.

The only thing she knows, or cares about regarding economics is stuffing as many millions of Wall Street and foreign "contribution" dollars as she can into the "Clinton Foundation"....

. "Hell, YES, I know how economies work... ask my friends on Wall Street!"

 

Are there any capitalist states? There are many with various degrees of capitalism - but I can't think of any
that are purely capitalist.

If you want to list the US - then one could argue that the US failed as a purely capitalist state at the end of the
the 1800 after a series of recessions, market collapses and finally, in the Great Depression.

 

There are no pure anything and there are no countries where capitalism has failed like equally impure socialism has in country after country

 

Lefties can come up with all the excuses in the world, the fact is, capitalism made the US the most prosperous country on the planet!

And the fact most lefties defend socialism is quite frankly because they lack the skills, confidence or perseverance to make it on their own. You people are pissing in the wind if you think you're fooling anyone into thinking it's for the common good, you're just trying to cover up and justify your own insecurities!

 

Yea, just keep telling yourself that.... The facts you use to support your case (none) is equal to the validity of your claim (none). Nice irrational delusional claim though ...

 

There were no failures in Socialism in Venezuela until we intervened.http://www.telesurtv.net/english/an...t-to-Overthrow-Hugo-Chavez-20151118-0014.html We took over their government with a coupe attempt, and when it didn't work in 2002, Chavez returned to power by the will of his own people, while in defiance of Venezuela not doing like we said, we put sanctions on Venezuela. That's what is hurting Venezuela, not Socialism. That's like saying the U.S. Post office is going broke. Well yea, if you don't fund it like the Republicans were doing, of course it can't support itself.

Bernie Sanders isn't about to get into the weeds with this because it is a complicated history of bad business by the U.S. We've been the number one culprit to bullying that country for decades, because they wouldn't bow to our form of government. Socialism has nothing to do with it ;


Venezuela: Recent U.S. intervention in Venezuela manifests itself as millions of dollars in contributions to political opponents of leftist President Hugo Chavez. The short-lived 2002 coup d’etat that kidnapped the democratically elected president was orchestrated by groups who had received funding from the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy (NED). When the opposition took power, they dissolved all of Venezuela’s democratic institutions, including the National Assembly, the Supreme Court, the Constitution, the General Attorney, and the Public Defender’s office. Meanwhile, their plan promised a return to free market economic policies. The coup only lasted two days before a popular resistance reinstated Chavez.

 

Sure there is. So, is the United States better economically for most people today, or in the days of unregulated capitalism, of the late 1800's? This country was a failed capitalist state and the reforms during and after the great depression improved this country...

So list the 10 happiest countries in the world, and the list is a list of countries with higher degrees of socialism... Heck Canada is on there with their national healthcare system... You know who is not on that list, the United States.

 

I wasn't arguing that socialist countries WERE any more likely to succeed.

There are examples of countries with a number of socialist components doing quite well - the Swiss have elements of
socialism in the education and health care systems. The Germans have elements of socialism. The Canadians.

I think that countries with a stronger capitalist component in general do better than those more socialist - and obviously, communism
is a complete failure.

 

What list are you using to claim this is the most prosperous country in the world?

This post is typical right wing bluster.... with a complete lack of facts.

So then, why are the richest congressional districts in the country mostly democratic, if success means you must be a republican?

 

Success has to be defined. If by success you mean a better life for the poor and middle class then Nordic model socialist countries are WAY more successful than the US

 

Yes we know it's always America's fault and Cuba failed because we boycotted it. Now ask yourself why Cuba needs capitalist American dollars and while your at it you might want to take a look at how Venezuela has run its oil reserves and the money squandering that took place after government took control of them

 

Yep, they have some of the largest oil reserves in the world, no good reason why they can't, but that darn old corruption keeps getting in the way

 

I never advocated for unfettered capitalism as the Pope put it. We need laws and regulations to stop capitalism from becoming dog eat dog. It's true we have some socialism in our system such as SS and it's no coincidence that those socialist programs are going bankrupt and dragging the whole country down with them. If I and most others my age had been able to put the money SS took out of our paychecks into the stock market all our lives we would be millionaires. Instead the government took it, squandered it and now is saying they may not be able to give us our little monthly check they promised. That is socialism on display.

 

Europe is in the process of rejecting socialism as we speak and most if not all the countries you listed can afford these massive social programs because they have virtually no military budget, they rely on capitalist America to protect them

 

So true

 

No they are not. They still have many more socialist programs than we do. The UK has had the NHS for 65 years. Even Iron Maggie could not touch it.

 

And just who comes up with up with these lists, could it be people who want the liberal utopian dream, I think so!

The analysis includes 111 countries, which account for 88% of the global population. We divided people into five income groups: People who are poor (living on $2 or less daily), low income ($2.01-10), middle income ($10.01-20), upper-middle income ($20.01-50) and high income (more than $50). The global middle-income range translates to an annual income of $14,600 to $29,200 for a family of four.
The U.S. stands head and shoulders above the rest of the world. More than half (56%) of Americans were high income by the global standard, living on more than $50 per day in 2011, the latest year that could be analyzed with the available data. Another 32% were upper-middle income. In other words, almost nine-in-ten Americans had a standard of living that was above the global middle-income standard. Only 7% of people in the U.S. were middle income, 3% were low income and 2% were poor.http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/09/how-americans-compare-with-the-global-middle-class/

 

Any facts presented in favor of socialist programs must be ignored. Just say lalalalalala. Keep your head in the sand. LOL