Trump is going to get trounced in the debates

Hard to define one these days, for all that we have is a corruption of conservatism. A genuine conservative would not be a free trading globalist. For conservatives are of traditional values. And traditional values go back to the founding, when Washington appointed Hamilton to come up with a system to insure we are self sufficient as much as possible, and to protect the things that make us self sufficient. So we had to protect the nation from cheaper labor, for our business, but also for our workers. For you cannot prosper as a nation if you have to compete against wages to low to live on in America.

And so a real conservative is against open borders free trade. So, this means the GOP may not have any real conservatives. They may be men who committed treason on what the founders set up, to protect the American people and the nation. These GOPhers may have turned the economic model created at our founding, to the elites, to only benefit the elites and not the people nor the nation. Well, that is what indeed they did, as Clinton brought the democrats along. And the rest is history. A very bad history for the working man.

 

The Clintons sold out the American working class with NAFTA.

“And the President made deals. The deals were so numerous that it seemed as if a For Sale sign had been hung over the White House. White House people were defensive and sad that the dealing wasn't any greater than with previous Presidents — but it was. Privately, even Daly and Mickey Kantor felt that the dealing got out of hand and was unseemly. Some of the deals involve changes in the trade agreement. This particularly infuriated labor leaders, who argued that they were in an unfair fight. Under the rules, the NAFTA agreement was to be voted up or down — no amendments allowed. And here was the administration in effect making amendments.” On the Edge, The Clinton Presidency, Elizabeth Drew, Touchstone, 1994. p 341, 342.

The special monied interests are always taken care of by the very united bipartisan political establishment.

The "conservative" label now means nothing. Clinton is the new "conservative". And the New "neoconservative".

 

I agree that Trump lost the debate although I do not think he was hurt very much by his poor debate performance. The electorate is in a very different mood this time round and so I do not think many of the normal rules can be easily applied.

I think a large percentage of the electorate (myself included) dislike both these candidates and so the question is perhaps ... "does putting more mud on a pig that has been rolling around in the mud make that pig more dirty ?

The electorate is going to choose Red or Blue so either way we end up with a dirty pig as leader of the nation.

That Trump would be pissed at losing to a woman assumes that Trump is not in a state of psychotic denial.

 

I wouldn't know. The polls I look at are Fox News, Real Clear Politics, N.Y. Times, Monmouth, Reuters, and Gallup for the most part.

As I said, "The term, "true conservative," is meant to differentiate from pseudo conservative. The likes of Trump and his admirers come to mind." I have already shown that Trump is not a Republican. Real Republicans and true conservative publications are rejecting him. Yeah, I know, you have said that they represent the establishment. True, but that also means Trump is going to lose. The establishment wields a lot of power in Washington. Republican voters made a serious mistake nominating Trump. No serious politician can successfully defeat the establishment. Proof of that statement are the many failures of Sanders and all third party candidates going back to the time of Lincoln, Abraham.

The ever popular Theodore Roosevelt was a third party candidate in 1912 and lost. The powerful business man, Ross Perot, was a third party candidate and lost. If these two powerful and prominent men can't defeat the establishment, Trump hasn't a prayer.

 

I am not an economist. As a matter of fact, I hate econ. However, I should point out that the Clinton years were the best since WWII in terms of household income.

"Household income is measured in various ways. One key measure is the real median level, meaning half of households have income above that level and half below, adjusted for inflation. According to the Federal Reserve, this measure was $51,939 in 2013, below the 1999 peak of around $57,000." Source: Wikipedia.

 

I pretty much agree with you. As for the debates, we heard from the media that the bar was lower for Trump in the first debate. Now we are hearing the bar is even lower for the second debate. He doesn't even have to look Presidential. He doesn't have to have a grip on the details of his and her campaign promises. All he has to do is show up and not lose his cool like he did in the first debate.

That is ludicrous. They are both Presidential candidates. They both should know the ins and outs of both positions on the issues. It appears now that the only problem Trump might run into is the bar is so low he might trip over it.

 

One thing I have noticed about this discussion. Trump followers are saying very little. It is almost as though they know only the fat lady has to sing.

 

Don't you have to know what a "true conservative" is to have a clue about "pseudo conservatives"?

 

You mean the Gingrich years?

 

Yup, and I think I have explained that rather well. Or, are you asking me what the values are for a true conservative? I'd be happy to oblige if that is your issue.

As you can see, so much for challenging the establishment. That's been a false promise for decades, and the Trump people are swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

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Not exactly.

 

Not sure what you were referring to as ludicrous but, at the end of the day they are both dirty pigs

 

I think they prefer not to gloat right now, there will be plenty of time for that after the election. Hillary spent $200 million and only holds a razor thin lead.

 

So far, you have provided no definition for a "true conservative". True conservative: please fill in the blank.

Now, Sandy, it is pretty clear that if Trump did not represent a serious challenge to the political establishment it would not be so united in its rabid irrational opposition.

 

I thought I explained that rather well. What is ludicrous is that the bar is set so low for Trump, according to the Trump camp, anyway. I don't know if the American voters believe that. They are both Presidential candidates. It should be a level playing field, and I think the voter understands that..

 

True conservatives believe in personal responsibility, limited government, free markets, individual liberty, traditional American values and a strong national defense. Believe the role of government should be to provide people the freedom necessary to pursue their own goals.

Are you satisfied now, my friend?

Trump doesn't believe in free markets. He believes in America first in trade deals. Our trading partners probably think world trade should be a level playing field, not advantageous to the U.S. America first will only antagonize our trading partners and is unworkable.

We already have a strong defense. We currently spend more on national defense than the next ten nations combined. Trump wants to add trillions to the National Debt by adding to our already dominant defense forces. That is wasteful, and, in most cases, our generals and admirals are not asking for it.

To win the female vote he conveniently promises some progressive measures such as federally supported child care and maternal leave.

His political history includes siding more with Democrats than Republicans. His smiling face is apparent at Clinton social affairs.

Summing up, Trump is a pseudo conservative as well as a pseudo Republican.

 

IOW, there are very few "true conservative" politicians in the Republican Party.

 

How true, pardon the pun. I am beginning feel sorry I used the term, "true conservative."

 

Political labels are inherently deceptive. Which is probably why they are used.

 

LOL For sure. The stuff Trump get's away with is amazing. It is sad commentary on how worthless our electoral system has become.

What is further nonsense is that they did not allow a third party into even one debate. This election is essentially a vote for one of two members of the same party and that party is sodomizing the citizens.

The choice is really ... do you want to be sodomized this way or that way.

 

Yeah, this election is not one of our prouder moments.

 

The stuff Hillary gets away with is just breathe taking. Astronomical!

 

Such as her criticizing Trump for saying the blatantly obvious (there was money to be made on the housing bubble). Has Hillary never heard the term "buy low sell high" ?

How is a market supposed to come back if no buyers step in ?. These buyers are not the one's that cause the crash. They are the ones that help to get the market back on it's feet again after the crash.

The one's who caused the crash are the one's that Hillary is in bed with ... her wall street buddies who pay her millions of dollars to make silly speeches ... transcripts of which she will not release - but then calls for Trump's tax returns.

What troubles me is - why did Trump not say this ? His handlers knew the question was coming before-hand. Why now is he not saying this ?

Why does Trump not back up his ( Obama created ISIS) claim ? This claim is not correct in that ISIS existed before Obama but, they were a small group with little power.
Why has Trump not said "What I meant was that Obama/Hillary created the modern incarnation of ISIS" by arming extremist Islamists (Al Qaeda/Al Nusra, Islamic Front) in Syria ?

Are his handlers seriously so useless that they are not aware of what Rand Paul and others have said ( Not only drilling Hillary during the Benghazi hearings but on the Sunday Morning CNN program "State of the Union".

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2...-my-son-into-that-mess-on-the-crisis-in-iraq/

Is this not news ? Does this not drive Hillary so far into the dirt (arming Al Qaeda- the 911 terrorists) that she could not recover ?

That Trump is not doing this should tell you something.

 

You are, of course, referring to the email scandal. That is the only legitimate beef Trump has on Hillary. Yes, she could have handled that better, and the private server was a mistake. Hillary has admitted that. Bottom line, while the beast has many tentacles, it is the only beast in Hillary's repertoire.

On the other hand, Trump has many issues, too many to list here. However, a small list would include appearing on a Russian controlled propaganda network criticizing our Commander-in-Chief, his campaign favors a military confrontation with Russia in Syria if certain conditions apply, sinking Iranian fast boats for coming into the vicinity of U.S. ships, arming Japan, S. Korea, and Saudi Arabia with nukes, and not protecting members of NATO if they haven't paid their bills.

I'll take Hillary's beast every day compared to Trump's herd of beasts.

 

It's more than a simple mistake. It's a felony and she should be prosecuted. People have gone to jail for less. A sailor was jailed for taking a picture of the submarine he was stationed. Another for accidentally taking a classified paper. Her crime has costed the death of an ambassador at Ben Ghazi.

 

Prove that. And it's Benghazi.