Seriously, why do you fear Universal Healthcare as a solution for US?

I appreciate your position.

All citizens have certain obligations and responsibilities to both their fellow citizens and the state and likewise the state has obligations and responsibilities to all its citizens.

Some believe that such a universal requirement as healthcare should be available to all citizens as a share of the collective wealth of the state. that doesn't mean a free ride for everyone, that means everyone including businesses pays into a fund that distributes those funds for payment of basic medical care. Then on top of that basic medical care there is private health insurance available (thru employers or individually) that can cover policy holders for up to "sky's the limit" if you are a multi-millionaire.

Its well known that a healthy workforce is productive workforce. Seems that the state should be obliged to ensure a healthy citizenry being a productive citizenry.

 

Do we? There are certain negative actions we are not allowed to do, but are there mandatory positive actions? That is, negative actions are things people do that affect us negatively like no stabbing people in the back. But is there a mandatory positive action involved with being a citizen? That sort of stuff is usually reserved for the military.

"collective wealth of the state"? The state is 19 trillion in debt! There is no collective wealth of the state, unless you want to start auctioning off national parks and government buildings! Maybe we can put the white house up on ebay. Trump doesn't really need it, and it is a bit too pretentious when compared with other government public housing units.

And because of that, my employer does offer healthcare insurance as one of the perks to get me motivated for that commute on monday mornings. Some employees might prefer cash money instead of health insurance. Some employers might not consider it all that important because of employee turnaround. It's case-by-case. So if you want health insurance paid for by your employer, then you know what to demand when negotiating your contract.

 

Go to cihi.ca and get educated.

 

Name one. Just one

 

Merit based immigration policies?

 

Im all for fresh ideas and experimentation. I have an aversion for big government and bureaucracy. I don't blindly follow the if its good for 1 its good for all routine.

 

I am conflicted. Forcing people to do something they don't want to do never ends well. I am big on personal choice and responsibility and accountability.
On the other hand i have come to wonder if most people are happier being sheep. Too many choices, too much responsibility. Perhaps we are pre-disposed to be subservient.

 

You were treated for cancer...and you're still alive....hmm.

So...the VA isn't a "beleaguered $154 billion-a-year department whose major functions are stricken with a combination of operational and technological dysfunction; serious morale problems exacerbated by what administration officials now acknowledge is a corrosive management culture and hostility to whistle-blowers; and a lack of trust among many veterans?"

One of the VA's most severe problems included a scandal over falsified waiting lists that led to the ouster of the department’s top two officials, including head of the VA Shinseki who characterized the lack of honesty and proper behavior at some of the department’s facilities as a “systemic, totally unacceptable lack of integrity” that he could not explain.

And kudos Frank.....for being so forgiving. I'm not. I don't tolerate ignorance and thus, don't attempt it again. Does the VA have serious issues..or not?

 

I call bs. Medicare pushes administrative and coverage costs onto the rest of us. That's an apples and oranges comparison. Also, it's unfunded.

 

If you're implying that I am fibbing, I could care less. You are the one asking someone to prove the merits of the private market versus government after the premise was settled over 75 years ago. Read a book for Christ's sakes.

 

Apparently, it's not getting through. The government is very bad at most everything, but they are a necessary evil sometimes and that can be argued with quite a bit of reason.

 

Grocery stores. The government issues food vouchers because they cannot compete with the private market food delivery system. There you go. Now go read "road to serfdom" and take notes. Follow that up with every other suggestion from amazon. Then, realize how completely ignorant you sound asking for an example. Seriously, it's the equivalent of having to prove grass is green.

 

How exactly does it do that pray tell?

 

Because Obama proved it is all about totalitarianism. It only works through violent government force. If that does not scare you have a chat with the former 1945 mayor of hiroshima

 

So the bill of rights does not obligate the citizen to uphold those rights for all? Hear tell taxes are an individual obligation and pretty damn near every penny spent is taxed somewhere along the line.

Yes the collective wealth of the state. 19trillion dollars in debt as expressed as a % if GDP is like measuring your personal wealth on the difference between your mortgage and income. Measuring the collective wealth is assets minus liabilities and guess what? America's assets DWARF the debt. Even when one considers that the straight line estimations of future entitlement obligations without regard to other factors, America collectively still comes out way way on top.

Your employee insurance plan is more often than not a necessary component of any competitive compensation package. Cash money is taxable. And no employee coverage simply dumps the problem of coverage into other delivery channels.

 

The bill of rights is a listing of restrictions on the federal government. They don't apply to individuals. Taxes are a legal obligation, which is why SCOTUS approved the mandate of obamacare. However, that doesn't translate to a mandatory positive action on people, or else everybody would have to pay income taxes.

Yeah well, sorry but you can't count my money as part of the collective wealth. So sorry, but it is my money.

 

They do not pay enough to cover the admin.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323971204578626151017241898

 

My reason is that I don't trust the government. It is run for the benefit of a small group of the ultra-rich.

 

For years the cold war, the anti-communist hysteria, the pro-capitalist propaganda have glorified, lauded, praised to the skies (from h.s. history classes up), the American hegemony of the commercial elite, the economic one-percent. These movers and shakers, these owners and bosses, have lead the citizenry of this nation ("of the people, by the people, for the people") around by the nose long enough. The Occupy demonstrations were first to call a spade a spade, point the finger at American Business and designate it to be the Evil it has always been since George Washington, Thos. Jefferson, etc. all bought their first slave. The idea that one's boss held the power of life or death, health or sickness over the children of his wage-slaves, is revulsive. You can call me a lib-****, pinko, fellow-traveler, hippie-anarchist - but that won't change the fact that this Country (which some have fought as hard for on ramparts barricades as others in combat as VFW) has since day one been under the thumb of runaway capitalist warmongering greed. And have a nice day.

 

How is that? How are you exploited? And what "turn" do you think is owed to you?

 

It has the same place as feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and any other cliche' you choose. The profit incentive is what provides an abundance of goods and services at reasonable prices that provide value to the consumer. Government has no such incentive in such services or products. Which is better? Government engineering your new coffee pot then producing it and then telling you how much you shall pay for it? Or? Half a dozen private companies design and producing the better than their competitors coffee pot and selling you their coffee pot because it provides you the most value over the competitors? What is the best way to control the cost of goods, the government being the sole supplier of a host of companies competing to get your business by provided the highest value or the highest service?

 

Apparently you missed the conversation on the wealth-gap. Not just here in the US, but globally. But that's why we have Google.

 

This is the thing that just leaves me shaking my head about many of the conservatives on here. Anyone who has worked in corporate America knows that for the last 30 years or so, competition is not viewed any longer as something to beat, but rather as something to be bought out.

 

Ain't no such dichotomy.

Only with regulatory capture is buying out competition a good way to spend money. Otherwise its like whack-a-mole with a potentially infinite number of moles.

 

Rx pricing makes absolutely no sense at all. I recently had to get a prescription refilled on a new insurance plan. Apparently the pharmacy (Walgreens) was not in the plan's network, so the cash price was $86 for a 30 day supply, but going to the approved pharmacy, $15, and this is not a copay. Drug prices are a moving target, where if you don't have the right plan, the right pharmacy, they will rip you off!!! And mine you,my medication is a very common generic.