Where in the Constitution does it say the Fed gov should provide health care.

C'mon ... it was sarcasm. Did I really need the /s tag?

 

Okay. Let's hug it out...

 

Haven't you heard? VA healthcare benefits ARE NOT socialized medicine, according to the right. Which is just another example of the pretzel logic I called out in the post above this.

 

Nah ... I'll just keep reading your posts ... fair enough?

 

Oh, you're a conservative. I forgot how you guys struggle with basic civics. See , there are 3 branches of government. They each act as a check on the other branches.

 

Healthcare is part of the general welfare clause.

 

The Supreme Court disagrees.

 

is this a joke?

General Welfare clause doesn't refer to the People of the USA?

 

And if the states and the "people" issue failed totally as it did and does, what then? A shrug with "but the constitution tells that ..." only?

 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

So one branch is like its fist and the other branch is like its face. So the federal government punches itself in the face.

 

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH! STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH!

I didn't say any such thing! Can you read? I *said* you have those rights you have in a natural state! And *only* those rights. The right to self-defense. The right to speak. The right to travel. The right free exercise of religion. The right to be secure in your dwelling and papers.

Anything else is an *ENTITLEMENT! Entitlements can be taken away just as easily as they can be given. That's because they come from the use of government force to make slaves of others to serve your wants. When government changes your wants can be denied as easily as they are met.

 

Health care is not a human right. It is the product of human labor and no one has the right to the labor of another.

 

Because it is what the Founding Fathers encapsulated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

They spoke of *individual* rights, not collective rights. And they didn't speak of entitlements that require enslaving others in order to meet your wants.

 

Says who?

 

Healthcare *is* a right. But only that health care you can provide for yourself. Enslaving others to meet your wants makes anything more an *entitlement*.

Our government was formed to SECURE us our rights, our INDIVIDUAL rights. To do so certain responsibilities were delegated to the federal government. It's not a burden, it is a RESPONSIBILITY. National defence is an extension of the individual right to self-defense.

And in order for the federal government to carry out those responsibilities the people delegated the federal government the power to lay taxes.

They did *NOT* see fit give the federal government the responsibility for individual healthcare.

Again, health care is an INDIVIDUAL right, meaning you have a right to the health care you can provide for yourself.

*YOU* want to enslave others to pay for your healthcare. That is tyranny, pure and plain.

 

$ 7000 deductibles are not healthcare anyway. The deductibles at $7000 and a 117% premium increase should, in all honesty, be counted as "uninsured". We need to go back to free market in health insurance. Co-ops are growing and they prove it works. Compete across state lines. Tort reform. Those are the answers....not government.

 

Fantasy world? You think there aren't people in Alaska living 500 miles from anyone else? The only fantasy world is the one you have created from your willful ignorance.

Your answer is nothing more than a deflection because you can't answer my question. So you employ the argumentative fallacy of Argument by Dismissal. You wave your hands magically over the keyboard, say the magic word "fantasy", and assume you have somehow refuted what I said.

Is that the *best* you got?

 

While the general welfare is spelled out in the bill of rights and the Constitution it does not mention "healthcare". If "general welfare" is to be interpreted so loosely as to include "healthcare", then we could argue "food" also is part of that. How does single payor for food sound? I had steak and shrimp last night. Government should have picked up the tab because I need the protein for my "general welfare".

 

Are you actually reading your posts before hitting the post button?

WHY DO YOU THINK THESE PEOPLE ENTER THE CAREER THEY DO? They VOLUNTEER to rescue people! They don't do it because their bosses *force* them to!

MY GOD! Can you denigrate firefighters, policemen, EMT's, etc in any worse of a fashion!

 

Of course the fact that doctors become doctors voluntarily to help people doesn't make sense to someone willing to enslave others to meet their wants.

 

General welfare for health means things like the CDC, which prevents outbreaks of diseases. It doesn't mean each American's individual healthcare.

However, the constitution doesn't outright the prevent the federal government from regulating healthcare either. Therefore, is it allowed.

This idea on the right that ever law has to be individually written in the constitution in order to be valid is idiotic. The constitution allows for the federally government to regulate commerce. The selling of healthcare products and services is a form of commerce, end of story.

 

*YOU* are the one that can't answer the question of are you being denied your rights by government if they don't provide a hospital and staff to you 500 miles away from other humans.

*YOU* are the one arguing that our rights are given to us by the government - i.e. "providing everybody" with health care.

And you think you are being *rational*?

Another use of the argumentative fallacy of Argument by Dismissal. Wave your hands magically over the keyboard, say the magic word "crap", and assume you have refuted something.

Is this the *best* you got?

Argumentative fallacies are *NOT* responses. And you *continually* make things up, i.e. the Strawman argumentative fallacy, to put in my mouth! I have made up *NO* positions for you. *YOU* are the one advocating for enslaving others by using government force. *YOU* are the one advocating that government "provides" us with our rights!

And yet *YOU* are the one advocating that government "provide everybody" with a right. If government has to "provide everybody" a right then it is *NOT* a right, it is an entitlements. It is enslaving everyone using government force in order to meet your *wants*.

My great-grandparents several times removed didn't live in a community on the Great Plains of Kansas when they moved here to create a new life. And yet *they* survived. And prospered!

I agree.

Communities are formed to *secure* rights, not to limit them! Our Founding Fathers didn't see us giving up our individual rights when forming the Constitution!

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." (bolding mine, upside)

Dec. of Independence: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed" (bolding mine, upside)

This is *exactly* what Locke said in his treatise.

But "providing everybody" through a government entitlement is *NOT* securing individual rights, it is the very extending of rights that you speak of by enslaving others to provide for your wants, i.e. healthcare.

Rights are *NOT* a burden!

Really? You think that respecting the rights of others is a BURDEN on *YOU*?

If you can't see where that defines your worldview better than anything else you said then you are blind!

We establish a JUSTICE system, i.e. the Supreme Court, to arbitrate the conflict between individual rights, i.e. the right to movement versus the right to be secure in our property.

But none of this justifies enslaving others to provide for your wants.

Heathcare *is* a right, an INDIVIDUAL right, not a collective right.

Another argumentative fallacy, Poisoning the Well. Trying to discredit my argument by attacking me. All you are saying is that government has to "provide everybody" healthcare - AN ENTITLEMENT!

More Poisoning the Well. Is taht the *best* you got?

In other words you have nothing of import to offer in refutation of what I say. So, once again, you just resort to the argumentative fallacy of Argument by Dismissal.

PATHETIC!

Trump won because he spoke to the common man instead of just the coastal elites. He won the final poll. All the incorrect polls prior to the election were meaningless.

 

Good point. Food and shelter are greater necessities than healthcare.

The government should provide us each with a 10,000 sq foot mansion so we are all equal to the rich!

I hope golem sees your post!

 

Who says the states and the people have failed? You think that HALF of all babies being born today being covered by Medicaid is an indication that the States have failed?

 

In Article I, Section 8 the Constitution lays out the powers of the federal government. No where in section 8 is the power to provide healthcare listed. That much is certain. The framers thought things like healthcare was an individual's responsibility. Not governments.

On the other hand, in Section 9, Article I which spells out what is prohibited to the federal government, the Constitution is also mute on that point. Now the Federal government has the power to tax and using that power such services as Social Security and Medicare were provided. If I remember right what made the ACA legal or constitutional was Justice Roberts ruled the fees were a tax and thus permissible. Even though up and until Roberts ruling, the Democrats insisted the fee wasn't a tax.

If those nine blacked robed people on the SCOTUS rules something is constitutional, it is. It doesn't matter what the Constitutional says in black and white, what the framers original intent was. All that matter is what five blacked robed Justices rule and providing healthcare according to them is constitutional because Roberts says it is a tax.