Tell an Australian what the argument is against building a border wall.

Yeah, so a solution should be made for this problem too. What's your point?

 

Borders of course, but the weird thing was that passports were created to allow you to leave your country of origin, rather than to allow you enter any new country.

In the old days, political power was more about the number of people you controlled rather than territory, maybe because people were so much more closely associated with the land. Early legal precedents on citizenship were about countries claiming people rather than excluding them.

But now, people are becoming economically worthless due to over-supply, and even burdensome especially if they stay into their post-working elder lives.

 

the point being a wall doesnt work for air travel.

 

a caste is social hierarchy?

 

Who's saying it DOES work?

 

That's it? That's your point?

 

There were borders, just no visas or passports. Aside from a handful of racially-motivated laws, for most of US history, if you wanted to come here, you just came. There was no such thing as illegal immigration. The idea that the purpose of borders is to restrict immigration is a more modern invention.

 

A wall will slow illegals down, not stop them.
The greatest hurdle to overcome is the US people. ICE begins enforcing the law and we immediately have protests and cry's of "You're tearing family's apart". then the courts are on the side of the illegals and they have the 'right' to their day in court, courts that have a massive backlog of cases so the illegal gets to stay while the case is being heard and can then appeal dragging it out even more. Even if they lose the case they simply stay in the US until they are finally caught, of course this has been made almost impossible due to sanctuary cities and police departments being told to look the other way.
The very best wall that could be built on the southern border would not be steel or concrete but a change in the law to allow immediate deportation with a temporary visa to later return to the US for their court hearing, an end to illegals being able to access the welfare system and interpreting the Constitution so that it does not apply to anchor babies.

 

I went to school. I learned to read and write. I also learned how to read a newspaper, reference books, history books.

Not my place to cure you of your ignorance. As noted, if you're unable or unwilling to educate yourself on the issues then you are unqualified to discuss them.

 

So you know everything there is to know?

 

In the case of the US.
Other places, not so much.

 

No, probably not, but they have been built by Democrats.

 

Tunnels cause noticeable seismic disturbances and are usually found out eventually.

Frankly, I am more worried about the Wall eventually being used to keep disaffected citizens in, as the Berlin Wall was used, as our country becomes more repressive.

 

I know what I know. I find out what I don't know.

Take the hint.

 

I thought it was obvious but will spell it out, an aircraft clears a wall by several thousand feet

 

I still argue the wall is too expensive for what you get... a solution full of holes... one that doesn't work

 

That's AMAZING! You should be ashamed of yourself to spout such trash without any conception of history. Immigration laws were originally designed by BOTH PARTIES to protect American workers from an abundance of competitive workers seeking employment.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates there are 27 MILLION legal AND illegal immigrants in our workforce, that's 16.9-percent of the ENTIRE WORKFORCE. Our economy and wages have been stagnant for many years because of it.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/forbrn.nr0.htm

In other words, you would rather trash American workers in favor of low wages for employers.

Steve

 

There is no such thing as a total solution to anything. The all-or-nothing approach just leads to a feeling of defeat and immobilization.

I believe in keeping things simple, but there is a difference between simple and overly simple. We even have several different branches of the military to deal with different scenarios. The bottom line is that some sort of barrier could help, especially in reinforcing our immigration laws to relatively law-abiding people.

The reason so many Mexicans have ignored our immigration laws to this point is that those laws have been tacitly disregarded and undercut by our legislators; representation of people that like to profit from the legal vulnerabilities of "wetbacks". They can hire and fire them at will and pay them little or almost nothing, or even cheat them, and they have no legal recourse. It's even easier than exporting jobs--the same people that would work for less in Mexico will also work for less in the US if they're really not supposed to be here. What a bargain! Not.

We really need to see that our legislators do not support things that break our own laws...and we also need to be watchful that they don't change those laws just to enrich themselves.

 

And you should be ashamed for attacking the point without actually addressing it. What about it is not factual?

Yes, in an extremely misguided attempt.

Not according to most mainstream and conservative economists.

Lol, Steve, I AM an American worker. And one who not infrequently has had to compete with immigrants. So what? Competition, in the long run and in the big picture, is a good thing. Most economists who I've read on the subject say that immigrants have had a minimal impact on wages (and even then almost exclusively among those American workers without a high school education), and have been a net benefit to the economy as whole.

 

OK. All that water doesn't cost you anything and is far more effective than a man-made barrier.

You are welcome.

 

Entered the country illegally.

No. Parking your car in a no-parking zone is not a crime. It just gets you a ticket.

To show that it's something ingrained in our economy.

Just joking!

Or illegal immigrants who must abide by the law to avoid being deported.

Not true. Fact is that this "criminal illegal aliens" claim is a myth. Those who like to claim that show no evidence whatsoever. And there are ways of separating the two. There is, of course, no "national database" of illegal aliens that could be used to study the issue directly. But there are many "indirect" ways. For example, if illegal aliens tended to commit more crimes, that tendency would show up in the crime rates of cities that have more illegal aliens. There is none

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-an-increase-in-crime/?utm_term=.0b716f2a49d0

There is no such thing as "leftist media" in the U.S. . Except maybe for a few bloggers or YouTube channels,... things like that. There is Corporate Media, and there is Right wingnut media.

Well... The study I mention rebuts that argument. And there are more.

Just so you know, you are quoting from a Wingnut Think Tank whose only purpose is to provide political justification to the most outrageous right-wing policies by cherry-picking data. And normally the source is not relevant, but Heritage Foundation has proven it's lack of rigorous research too often.

And they even admit it! They call themselves a "right-wing think-tank". Can't get more biased than that.

... As are some Australians.You can't be that disingenuous!

Trump accused Mexican aliens of being rapists. Thus proving, once again, that he is a racist ******.

I don't disagree. But there are better ways of dealing with those already here. Such as the program I described.

No. Not the same thing. I'm talking about immigrants that are already here. What I described was just the outline of a plan that was prepared by the governors of the boarder states and bi-partisan Congressmen in the early 2010s... It was supported by just about all Democrats and almost half Republicans in Congress. People in boarder states were overwhelmingly in favor. It was buried by the portion of Congressional Republicans who didn't agree with it.

Not after the sharks started harvesting it in Australia.

I could go on forever

But yes. A few years ago Georgia enacted a "papers please" law trying to crack down on illegal immigrants. They had to throw the law away as peach and peanut farmers saw much of their crops rot away due to labor shortage
https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...w-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/

And this was during the worst years of the Recession.

.
Not here. Ghost Towns abound.

It's one of many reasons: good for the local economy, good for GDP, helps human beings, helps countries they come from relieve problems due to overpopulation, ... many many good things. This country owes its being the greatest economy in the world to its openness to immigrants. Both legal and illegal.

Not really. "Coyotes" know very well how to avoid being tracked.

Oh, yes there is! There is bi-partisan opposition.

I don't know, but let me give you an example. In 2006 Bush obtained authorization to build just 700 miles of fence. There were about 400 court disputes, of which 90 are still open after over a decade.

 

The DATA of an over abundance of workers seeking employment, the DATA of a stagnant economy for YEARS, the DATA of stagnant wages for YEARS, the DATA of 94 million AMERICANS (LFPR at 63-percent) not in the workforce, FAR out weight ANY TRASH you can muster. If it was possible, I would deport you as well, but obviously employers would like to keep people like you around.

As I said, you would rather trash the American worker and give employers the benefit of paying lower wages.

Steve

 

Immigrants didn't cause the recession. Nor does correlation equal causation. The immigrants were here when the numbers were better as well. You are relying solely on emotional and personal attacks, not facts and data.

 

What's a myth? That many of them are criminals? No, that's a fact actually!

The much more important separation is between:

1. Illegal aliens who were born in the country and lived the majority of their lives there and who won't be committing much crime. This will include children who CAN'T commit adult crime!

2. Illegal aliens who arrived as an adult

I'm sure that there are cities which attract more illegal aliens who arrived as an adult than other cities. However, these cities could be cities which have a much lower TOTAL number of illegal aliens than other cities. See the problem? If you have any other "indirect ways" which can be used to study the issue I'd be happy to hear them.

Of course they don't label themselves as "leftist", but are you really going to try and tell me that they don't have a left bias? Have you even heard of CNN and MSNBC?

Was there are study quoted in the Washing post article which you provided the link to? Is it a study which rebuts the argument that multiple studies on crimes committed by immigrants, combine the crime rates of both citizens and non-citizens, legal and illegal? Does it specifically say that they separate not combine? If so, I missed it. Can you direct me to it?

Yes and that's a fact! How is it being racist? You may need to look up the definition of the word "racist." Some Mexican aliens ARE rapists! And if they want to rape, they should rape Mexican girls. Not American and therefore become a problem for a foreign government to deal with. No country should have to deal with another country's citizens.

Sure, but is this the only work that illegal aliens do? This is just one industry. And of course there was no one to fill the labour shortage! There's been no work in the industry for so long because its been taken by aliens, no one even thinks to do it anymore. Everyone has been pushed out of the job market!

When it comes to agriculture, Australia is a very popular place for foreigners to come and work, picking fruit and stuff. We refer to these legal, temporary working visa holders as "backpackers." Is this not something which happens in the US? If not, then its probably because there is no work because it is taken by illegals. Foreigner's looking to legally work in the US shouldn't be pushed out of the job market by illegal aliens.

None of this is worth even one rape or murder committed by an illegal alien.

Really? They seem to be pretty good at getting caught don't they? And when they make it though it is due to the lack of resources to be able to track them over that huge area. It is NOT because they know what they're doing! What do you think they are, special forces soldiers or something? And you're seriously insulting coyote's!

Majority of Republican's?

Actually, I've read that by May 2011, 99.5% of the fence was complete and it was completed by 2015. So whatever court disputes you're referring to, they did f*ck all to stop the thing from being erected! Sure, technically one of the case could succeed resulting in a section of the fence being removed, but what chance do they have of winning now? They've not been very successful so far!

 

Yeah, it looks like you missed the part where I said "other than cost."