Dismiss Notice
Thanks for being a member of our community. Please donate toward site expenses if you can.

Ranked Vote: How To Reform Redistricting And End Political Gerrymandering?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Meta777, Jun 8, 2018.

Page 2 of 8
  1. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are missing the point.

    Gerrymandering represents 100% of the voters choices.

    The people that vote for Pelosi want her in office, what you want to do is water down their choice by adding in voters who don't like her.

    That is ultimately your only goal here, to add in voters that disagree with their representative so they can't win office.

    No matter how you break it down that's what it comes down to.

    This is a less cohesive system, it represents nobody.

    Tell me why you would want to add in voters from an inner city into the farmers voting block other than the fact that you don't want those farmers to be represented.

    You hope all of the inner city people vote against the farmers wishes and elect someone that won't represent them.

    That is the basis here of this ridiculous argument.
     
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #26
  2. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Basically by doing away with gerrymandering you are going to rely on the most populous areas setting the law for everyone else.

    Here's a newsflash, many people have needs not represented by the heavily populated city.
     
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #27
  3. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Districts are drawn at the state level, not the congressional level as you people seem to think.

    They rubber stamp it but usually have zero input into the process.

    States hire commissions to do the line drawing and most states require a bi-partisan panel to do it.

    It even goes down to the local level where they determine needs of communities and group them together.

    You guys thinking that there is some republican guy sitting in his office drawing lines so he thinks he can get voted in is just ridiculous.
     
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #28
  4. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Again, 90% reelection rate for a congress that only 13% of us thinks is doing a good job.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 8, 2018
    #29
  5. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Why don't you take those stats from the districts themselves.

    Go into Pelosi's or McCains and see what percentages you get.

    I have a feeling you won't like those numbers.

    But hey, I don't like what a senator from Vermont is voting on because it has no impact on me so that is my justification for changing the system.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #30
  6. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,296
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How y'gonna keep Black Districts, Black, without gerrymandering?
    We must have a Black districts, don'tchyaknow.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    Moi621, Jun 8, 2018
    #31
  7. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The whole point of districts, redistricting, and the house is to have a branch of government which reflects the views of the people. As such, everyone ought to have an equal say as to who gets to fill those seats in congress. Certain types of people should not get more or less say than other types of people.

    You're saying that one of the reasons for Gerrymandering is to give the votes of certain minority groups more influence and impact on congress than the votes of others. And that my friend is precisely why Gerrymandering needs to be done away with. It should be 1 person 1 vote. Certain classes of people should not get to have their votes have more influence than others. If you make the votes of the minority groups listed worth twice as much as everyone elses votes in order to "get their issues heard" and "make all of these groups [more] effective", then what about all the other minority groups you didn't list?? How is that fair to them??? Or for that matter, how is it fair to the majority?

    I can understand what you're saying about certain geographic groups having different needs, and the desire to see such groups have at least some representation in congress. But Gerrymandering isn't the answer here. If you want to break things down based on urban versus rural etc. representation, then I suggest that you should check out and subsequently support the Ring Method or one of its variants.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 8, 2018
    #32
    redeemer216 likes this.
  8. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No it does not.

    You're suggesting that uncompetitive races are preferable to competitive races?? Why???
    You aren't secretly a re-election-seeking politician yourself...are you??

    I just told you what I want in that post you quoted.
    No need for you to define my beliefs for me when I've already put them down in digital print.
    For the rest, see my last post: http://www.politicalforum.com/index...-gerrymandering.534578/page-2#post-1069180684

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 8, 2018
    #33
  9. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Un-competive races aren't that way because nobody wants the other candidate.

    They are that way because they do.

    What you want to do is force people to make them comptetive and that's wrong.

    You think that if everyone is voting for a certain candidate that we should change the system so that candidate won't get as many votes.

    You should be asking yourself why that candidate is getting all those votes to begin with.

    You also believe people are like robots.

    All people in this district will vote a certain way regardless.

    They are stupid, they can't look up issues they don't know what's important to them.

    That is insulting.
     
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #34
  10. Evan245

    Evan245 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    1,146
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Where was the Sheeple alert disclaimer on this thread ....

    WTF ......
     
    Evan245, Jun 8, 2018
    #35
  11. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And I've asked this multiple times in this thread.

    Where is the problem.

    For there to be a problem you must not like the results.....how do our congressional elections represent a problem?

    They won't answer.

    Our HOR flips on a constant predictable basis so what do they want, for it to flip quicker?

    Where is the problem?

    Do they feel their candidates aren't getting elected?

    Their party isn't in power quick enough?

    Explain to me the problem you guys are having here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #36
  12. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It almost sounds here like you are against the idea of Majority Rule.
    But that can't be right...in another thread you specifically told me that you were in favor of Majority Rule.
    What happened?

    If you simply want to ensure that both rural areas and urban areas get appropriate representation,
    then again, I suggest you check out and subsequently support the Ring Method and or one of its variants.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 8, 2018
    #37
  13. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I am in favor of majority rule.

    I would also appreciate that if you have an issue to bring up you do it and not reference me to another thread.

    Basically you haven't addressed one single point I've brought up to discount this thread.

    I am more than happy to have that debate when you get around to it.
     
    Spooky, Jun 8, 2018
    #38
  14. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't think anyone in the thread has said otherwise.

    To be precise, only 21 out of the 50 states currently use a bipartisan or independent comity.
    And of those, only 13 exclusively use such groups when drawing district maps.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_commission

    And if you read the descriptions I wrote on those two options, you'll see that while better than nothing,
    they aren't exactly a perfect solution to the issue. They do have their flaws.

    Also...if you're trying to suggest that Gerrymandering isn't a thing....well...
    ....let's just say that the current district maps sort of speak for themselves...

    [​IMG]

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 8, 2018
    #39
  15. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You mean the ones which are specifically gerrymandered to bring in voters favorable to the incumbent? Lol!

    What do you think is more important to our government?
    An individual politician, or the way a governing body like our house congress functions as a whole?

    I'm not sure what you're talking about here. The congress has an impact on all of us.
    It writes the laws of the land, or at least usually plays a part.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 9, 2018
    #40
  16. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Meta777, Jun 9, 2018
    #41
  17. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As I stated, that incumbent is getting the votes because he/she is representing their district.

    You don't like that and think every seat should be contested heavily, you will even change the system to make that happen.
     
    Spooky, Jun 9, 2018
    #42
  18. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This is what you are telling me.

    Bob is running for the 114th district and all the people there are too stupid to vote for anyone else.

    They will just vote for bob regardless.

    They have no personal issues or anything that may alter their vote, they are animals basically.
     
    Spooky, Jun 9, 2018
    #43
  19. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Maybe you should be telling politicians to be working on the problems facing the nation instead of looking for results by modifying the system.
     
    Spooky, Jun 9, 2018
    #44
  20. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,296
    Likes Received:
    7,607
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Moi621, Jun 9, 2018
    #45
  21. Spooky

    Spooky Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    31,814
    Likes Received:
    13,377
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You honestly think that just because I live in a gerrymandered district that I vote a certain way?

    NO, I vote for the politician that will best represent my views.
     
    Spooky, Jun 9, 2018
    #46
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't believe that having a bunch of uncompetitive races all over the place is useful for democracy.
    But no, making all races competitive in contrast is not the main goal here, nor is it the main
    goal of any of the ideas I've suggested...rather, it just happens to be a useful byproduct
    that a lot of the ideas would naturally result in a higher number of competitive races.

    But as for what I really want, I've already posted that earlier in the thread when you asked me.
    If you need to, please go back and read the post again...otherwise, why did you ask if you were just going to ignore it?

    Any chance its because they gerrymandered the map to give themselves an advantage?

    Stop putting words in mouth! Seriously, this is starting to border on flame-bait.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 9, 2018
    #47
  23. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If you want a more comprehensive description of the problem than what's been given here,
    then you should read back through the OP of the discussion thread.
    How To Reform Redistricting And End Political Gerrymandering
    It goes into great detail about what exactly gerrymandering is,
    how it works, and why its an issue for our democracy.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 9, 2018
    #48
  24. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,643
    Likes Received:
    1,740
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I just expect a bit of consistency from folks is all. Its good if you are consistent in your desire for Majority Rule.
    But then, if you truly are in favor of Majority Rule, how then can you support gerrymandering,
    a practice which can, and often does, result in a Minority group getting to call the shots instead of the Majority?

    Pretty sure I've addressed every one of them actually.
    If you want me to respond to something specific, then you should pose the point in the form of a question.

    -Meta
     
    Meta777, Jun 9, 2018
    #49
  25. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    13,693
    Likes Received:
    11,981
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Can you explain the circular method, Meta? Or perhaps give a link where you've already done it?
     
    Seth Bullock, Jun 9, 2018
    #50
Page 2 of 8

Share This Page