Dismiss Notice
Thanks for being a member of our community. Please donate toward site expenses if you can.

Calling Prophet Muhammad a pedophile does not fall within freedom of speech: European court

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by jimmy rivers, Oct 26, 2018.

Page 10 of 16
  1. Bush Lawyer

    Bush Lawyer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2018
    Messages:
    15,574
    Likes Received:
    9,979
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No one? This little old Aussie has silenced you all? Come on!
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Bush Lawyer, Oct 29, 2018
    #226
  2. flyboy56

    flyboy56 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    15,707
    Likes Received:
    5,546
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I should had my coffee before reading your post. As in huh?!
     
    flyboy56, Oct 29, 2018
    #227
  3. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2014
    Messages:
    36,678
    Likes Received:
    8,858
    Trophy Points:
    113
    There is no such thing as "hate speech". It's an illiberal regressive construct which can be used for political gain.
     
    AFM, Oct 29, 2018
    #228
    roorooroo and Adfundum like this.
  4. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Your quote may be considered hate speech in today's world. It refers to Muhammad's words to his followers during a time when the spice trade routes were bringing wealth to the region, as well as lots of foreigners and criminal behavior. At first, Muhammad preached that there should be no violence, but after a lot of his followers got killed, to gave the people the go-ahead to fight and kill their enemy. His words referred to a specific time, place, and set of events. Despite what the Western World and Islamic terrorists want you to think, those words are not an eternal commandment. They are nothing more than permission to kill to repel those who were considered invaders.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #229
    alexa likes this.
  5. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not sure where you live, so I'm assuming you don't realize that the our Constitution does not block hate speech. I know full well what people are referring to when they use the term "hate speech," which is really much broader than some simplistic google definition. What I wanted to point out is that if we apply those definitions to reality without thinking them through, the prisons will immediately fill up with 'haters'. Everyone you don't like, everyone who makes a statement that offends you will somehow and at sometime fit the concept of hate speech. You have referred to me several times as being intellectually lacking. I could easily fit your comments into the definition of hate speech--you hate intellectually diminished people. Off to prison for you.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #230
    roorooroo likes this.
  6. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it's not actually documented how old she was. It's claimed.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #231
  7. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm struggling with your point. You highlighted the thing I've been arguing--it's not a crime in this country.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #232
  8. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    8,399
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Correct. That's why it's an EU story and many Americans will be and are perplexed by it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Nonnie, Oct 29, 2018
    #233
  9. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Messages:
    21,697
    Likes Received:
    7,745
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its worse than that. The court went to great lengths to point out that he couldn't have been a pedo because he didn't exclusively **** children. So ****ing a 9 year old doesn't make you a pedo unless you don't keep marital raping her when she grows up.
     
    Reality, Oct 29, 2018
    #234
  10. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm confused by all your earlier posts that suggested you believed hate speech was a crime in this country. I personally am not too concerned about the E.U.'s position on the subject, even if I don't agree. But in this country, don't mess with my free speech.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #235
  11. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    Messages:
    10,856
    Likes Received:
    16,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Who decides what's hate speech?

    Article 10 became worthless last week, RIP freedom of speech in the EU, although in the UK it was already sliding.

    Either freedom of speech is absolute or it is only an illusion.
     
    Liberty Monkey, Oct 29, 2018
    #236
  12. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not much interested in what the EU thinks about free speech.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #237
  13. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    8,399
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    There's confusion, I'll explain.

    You guys are claiming that free speech doesn't exist outside of America. We've explained that we have free speech but with this this story, it's hate speech. Hate speech has been explained, it doesn't exist in America. There's a difference between free and hate speech outside of America.

    So to someone in the UK, the thread title is wrong and we're just trying to correct/explain it; just trying to stop certain people from frothing at the mouth.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Nonnie, Oct 29, 2018
    #238
  14. Liberty Monkey

    Liberty Monkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2018
    Messages:
    10,856
    Likes Received:
    16,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Then why are you in a thread about free speech in the EU?

    The 1st amendment is foundation of a democratic society, article 10 was our 1st amendment but it's now worthless.
     
    Liberty Monkey, Oct 29, 2018
    #239
  15. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2017
    Messages:
    8,399
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The idiots in government.

    And I agree with the rest of your post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    Nonnie, Oct 29, 2018
    #240
    Liberty Monkey likes this.
  16. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Hate speech itself is not illegal, certainly not in the UK. What is illegal is speech with the intent to incite hate or violence in others. In Scotland it must also be deemed to be such that one would expect those it is aimed at to be frightened. Basically that means you can say what you want at home and with friends but if you broadcast your hate you may well be in trouble.

    I find it a very difficult one to call. Clearly it needs to be closely watched so that it does not step over the line to repression. On another level and particularly in today's world it does create boundaries. People know how far they can go. Given that in a democracy we all have equal rights it is the responsibility of Government to find a way to make sure minorities do not lose rights, for instance to safety. These hate laws are part of that.
     
    alexa, Oct 29, 2018
    #241
  17. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US constitution doesn't apply in the EU...
    All of the world democracy save one, the USA, aren't using the US constitution and they're fine.
     
    Badaboom, Oct 29, 2018
    #242
  18. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I originally posted about comments regarding Islam. Other comments suggested we had hate speech laws, so I posted about those.
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #243
    Liberty Monkey likes this.
  19. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The problem I see with hate speech laws is that hate speech can't be defined in such a way that it will apply universally. I'm assuming that in Scotland, it would be illegal to make disparaging comments about the opposing political groups?
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #244
  20. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    No.
    It is basically saying things about minorities with the intent of inciting hatred/violence towards them.

    You can say what you like about other political parties.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    alexa, Oct 29, 2018
    #245
  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Duplicate
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    alexa, Oct 29, 2018
    #246
  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    So, what's the difference?
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #247
  23. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    You know to me it is as weird that you need to ask this as it apparently is for you to understand it.

    Hate crimes are the intent to incite hatred or violence towards minorities. That is to do with race, religion, sexuality, gender and that is all I can think of right now.

    A political party is not a minority. If you turn it round and ask whether a person acting for a political party can be arrested for what they say about minorities, I don't know because politicians have all sorts of special rights and protections. It is also important to understand that most things that Politicians would come up with would be more likely to come under racism/ homophobia or what not and generally they go off for training. It is still not socially acceptable to have outright prejudice in the UK and more so in Scotland.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2018
    alexa, Oct 29, 2018
    #248
  24. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2018
    Messages:
    7,743
    Likes Received:
    4,205
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    How popular is the Communist Party in Scotland? If it represents a minority of people there, my question is does that fall under the protection of hate speech laws? What I see as the problem is why the term minority is limited to just those you mentioned. We could extend the question to include people with two different colored eyes, people who have one leg longer than the other--do you see my point?
     
    Adfundum, Oct 29, 2018
    #249
    roorooroo likes this.
  25. Badaboom

    Badaboom Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    5,754
    Likes Received:
    3,162
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. You can also do hate speech toward the majority also. Anjem Choudary for example was using hate speech against the majority in many of his speech, don't you agree?
     
    Badaboom, Oct 29, 2018
    #250
Page 10 of 16

Share This Page