Honest invitation to the Leftist Liberals -- please, tell us on the Right what you REALLY want!

But everything you mentioned in your post, was a republican policy. So do you really stand for what you said, or is more the side you vote for rather than the ideas of the leader?

 

Can you explain what you mean by RW communist? To me and to most people who have studied politics that is a contradiction in terms. Right Wing about has a free society in which the individual governs themselves. Whereas communist is a system in which society as a collective governs themselves?

Unfortunately what was the fringe left 20 years ago, is now the mainstream left. The left I am referring to is the Bernie Sanders of the world.

 

If the right would listen to what those on the center and left really want, you'll find that there is many things in common.
What the talk radio spew is not to paint the center and left as anything other than an enemy. I bet the LW media does the same to RW. But they do that to pander to their audience.
IMO, 24/7 news and talk radio is a major reason for the disconnect between the actual people in this country. They feed the discontent, because it increases the audience or at least keeps them tuning in.
They are nothing more than reality tv type programming.

 

oops, typed to fast.
It should say, that those on the LW not a communist.
RW is not about a free society. Libertarian is as close to a free society as it gets, even they have some rules.
RW in the USA is as much for gov't as the LW. Just on different issues.
RW would like to control people's lives via gov't IE, women's rights, who can marry who.
LW would like to control environmental issues via gov't. IE, Pollution regulations, including carbon emissions.

And yes, communism, correctly stated, is a stateless society. The LW is hardly pushing for a stateless society. And, no, they are looking for the gov't to control/own the means of production as a communist society does.

 

To answer the thread title, what leftist liberals want is for the federal government to be their mommy, and yours too. How in Hell is any American worth his or her salt supposed to come together with that?

 

Sometimes, the process is more important than the problem. For example, the Republicans are still butt-hurt over the manner in which the ACA was passed. The solution was not worth what it did to the process because it poisoned the process for solving future problems.

 

I want single payer healthcare - democratic party
I want a flat tax with no deductions except for 401k with no more than 25,000 per year per person, all income to be taxed at that rate after one deduction for the federal poverty level. neither left or right.
I want SS eliminated and a fed guarantee of the federal poverty level income at retirement.- Guarantee of income- democratic idea
I want complete legalization of drugs similar to alcohol Liberal idea
I want the corporate tax rate set to 15% of profits but with many present deductions eliminated. Elimination of capitol gains taxes, all income to be treated the same. No more "Romney" capital gain income of 15% Democrat idea
I want term limits of 5 terms for the house and three in the senate. neither left or right
I want campaign contributions limited to $100,000 for your district, $50,000 for out of district personal donations only. no corporate or Union donations. I want all elected reps to have no business with the federal government for two years after they leave. limiting campaign contibutionshas alway been a left issue
I want a balanced budget within 10 years. Taxes receipts are to be raised 2% per year and spending cut by a like amount. the last balanced budget was under a dem
I want a federal ID program, a more secure southern border, and jail terms for those that hire illegals.
Illegal immigrants take jobs away from legal and citizen working poor depressing wages, Business owners who normally vote Repub are the ones who benefit from a greater supply of labor.

I want a 20% tarif on all goods from China until they decrease the trade deficit to 25% of total volume of trade between the two countries. Tarifs have allways been a tool of the left Sanders wanted the same thing as trump.
I want school vouchers for 75% of the cost for any student whose public school does not meet the no child standards after two years. These schools have to accept disabilities at the same % rate in the public schools. These vouchers to be paid from fed aid to that district. While vouchers have always been a repub thing, as they don't want to educate the whole populace and just their own so to perpetuate a "middle business class" they also want vouchers for any student, I only want them for failing schools, they want vouchers to help compensate for sending thier kids to private schools.

 

Very good post, both sides think every idea that makes some semblance of common sense a product of their beliefs. MSNBC paints Trump as a Hitler type figure/ Fox paints Obama as a communist. (some communist - look at his wall street speaking fees) Democrats are socialists- Repubs are facist racists. The radical 10% of each side refuses to let the nation have a discussion. We have a Dem that the radicals want to position nationally that wants to eliminate ICE, We have nutcases on the right who think a waiting period and registering guns is a communist new world order trilateral commision plot

 

I grew up with and around guns. They could be purchased same day, and carried proudly in the rifle rack in the cab of your pickup.

I don't know about communist new world order trilateral commission plot, but I do know it's not exactly freedom we're talking about.

Does that make me a nutcase?

 

Off the top of my head.

Medicare for all
Free college for trade degrees
Campaign finance reform
Reduction and re-evaluation on military expenditures
Green new deal
Tax reform
Repair decrepit infrastructure

 

Talk radio is trash, TV news is trash, youtube is trash. All are made for entertainment and the lowest common denominator.

People seldom read anymore, and give too much trust to the media of their choice. Not realizing they are feeding their own confirmation bias.

 

I'd agree with you about talk radio. youtubers are a bit different in that it's a platform that allows people the chance to formulate a rebuttal. It's actually a long form of communication that I find hard to fault. In fact, the best youtube videos are those that critique videos of others.

It's basically what we do here, but with a much larger audience. In fact, if you're good you can make some serious dosh doing it.

 

At one point I agreed with you. And I still find value in the youtube format for expressing one’s opinions. But YouTube is not a place to get educated on anything. I’ve found so much misinformation on the platform even from channels that I like that makes me cringe.

There is no comparison to listening to someone talk about marxist theory, and reading Das Kapital. Listening to lectures on Adam Smith, and actually reading The Wealth of Nations. Listening to a sermon, but reading the Bible. Appreciating the works of Plato, Xenophon, and Aristotle for what they are, rather than a halfwit’s interpretation of it.

Context is everything, and without the understanding of the core material commentary is useless. Why should I listen to some jackass complain about the media when I can read Manufacturing Consent?

 

Misinformation is going to be everywhere. you'll even find it in the greek philosophers. Some of them, like Descartes and kant weren't all that good.

 

Agree. I’d go further and add politicians to your list of dividers.

 

I like Kant and Descartes, with most philosophy I don’t agree with everything. But I found they put interesting ideas out there and had a poetic way of expressing it.

Locke is utterly boring to me although I agree with a lot of his ideas. Might be too acceptable now to have any teeth, but I think he is just a bland writer. Rousseau’s Social Contract riffs on many of the same ideas and is much more memorable.

 

The social contract is actually the easiest to debunk. All you have to ask is who is capable of making up the terms of that social contract. When you find out that it's not you, then you know it has nothing to do with philosophy. it's just totalitarian rubbish.

 

How is arguing against the monarchy totalitarian rubbish?

 

Happy 2019, Cy!

In order to reach an understanding we need to know who we are ourselves and where we stand in respect to each other on the political spectrum.

Per this link I would say that both you and I are part of Exhausted Majority which forms 2/3rds of the nation.

https://hiddentribes.us/

Like you I am also trying to gain insight into what others want but I am looking for areas of COMPROMISE in this thread.

http://politicalforum.com/index.php...nd-the-need-for-compromise.548323/#navigation

By finding areas of compromise we can then find solutions to our vexing issues and thereby reduce the divisions between us that are being ruthlessly exploited to the detriment of We the People.

Between us we might end up with a useful list of ideas that we can work with.

 

Just wanted to correct the record on this fallacy.

Neither side INTENTIONALLY wants to destroy the economy.

Both the Great Depression and Great Recession occurred because of a LACK of REGULATION and sheer unmitigated GREED and AVARICE.

Rather than get into a Blame-Game as to the HOW they occurred let's just COMPROMISE on the basics so as to ensure that it does not happen again, AKA fool me once...

This means putting together BIPARTISAN regulations on the Wall Street Casino Bossed so as to STOP them GAMING the markets for their own personal enrichment while dumping the losses onto the taxpayers, AKA We the People.

My suggestion in this regard is that those bipartisan regulations must stipulate that when the market crashes the Wall Street Casino Bosses must personally make good, out of their own fortunes, the losses incurred by everyone who is NOT one of the Wall Street Casino Bosses but rather a Small Retirement Investor.

This can be implemented by a Wall Street Casino Small Retirement Investor Security Non Profit Foundation which has the power to seize the personal assets of the Wall Street Casino Bosses in the event of a crash and to use said funds to reimburse all of the Small Retirement Investors who were burned by the crash.

The goal of this regulation is to ELIMINATE the rollercoaster gambling that occurs in the Wall Street Casino by making the Bosses accountable and responsible for a stock market that works ONLY on the basis of ACTUAL profits and/or losses of listed corporations. The ability to inflate worthless stocks and create bubbles must be eliminated entirely and the WSCSRI Foundation acts as the built in reason for that to no longer happen. With their own personal fortunes on the line the Wall Street Casino Bosses are going to become risk averse in this regard.

Please note that this is NOT a new concept. It was done in the banking sector where executives were being held personally accountable for the banks that they running. Suddenly those same banksters became exceptionally risk averse. Making the Wall Street Casino Bosses risk averse will mean that they will get back to the basics of stock trading and avoid the GAMBLING that causes massive harm to American taxpayers who end up with the DOUBLE WHAMMY of not only losing their 401k's but also having to shoulder the massive LOSSES incurred.

Yes, the idea could use some tweaking here and there but the basic principle BENEFITS We the People regardless as to where we are on the political spectrum.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of your thoughts, but I think they are more extreme than my thinking...

What I wanted to address, specifically, is this notion of change. Change is normal - change is natural - change is inevitable - change is progress. The world and its people is very different from the way it was 50 years ago. In fact, the last 10 years have seen radical change, socially and culturally. We can't ignore that and cling to 'the way it was'. America will 'look' very different in another 50 years - not because of those who you claim want it to change, but because the world's population is changing. Fearing that a 'white' country is replaced by 'a brown or black country' is fear of the inevitable. Why not focus on the foundations of the country rather than the colour of its skin? Democrats do not want to tear down capitalism - they want to ensure it doesn't polarize the country and devastate the lives of those who don't have the means or ways to attain the American Dream.

 

Thanks to you both for offering useful input to help identify what the Liberal Left really wants (or, by contrast at least indicates that it does not want).

Next, I think that I must open a "companion thread" to accompany this one in which I pose EXACTLY the request of those on the "Conservative Right"!

@dairyair . Hi! I have not meant to disparage anyone by referring to the liberal faction as being the "Liberal Left" (or "Lib Left" -- less typing) -- THUS -- in order to maintain what you on the Left can see as an unbiased, 'level-field', I'll be referring to those on the Right in the 'companion thread' that I'll create next in this Forum as the "Conservative Right" (or, "Cons Right" -- again, less typing). Thus, the two terms should equal each other in descriptive accuracy... i.e., Conservative = Liberal, and, Left = Right. I know you see what I mean.

I don't want us to be deflected over descriptive terms... we have to refer to each other as something without starting a sidebar 'flame-war'.... In other words, it isn't going to be helpful to refer to anyone as "RADICAL". We may think the other side is "radical", but, please, at least in these threads, let's avoid that if possible. Thank you!

 

Well now....give that man a cigar!

A few days ago you compared a "talk radio host" to nothing more than a cheerleader.
Now you consider them "dividers".
What changed your mind I wonder.

 

I'm glad you're here! You, perhaps more than many, can understand what I'm hoping we can achieve by asking people in our two factions what we REALLY WANT, and what we are willing to do to achieve useful compromise.

I have opened an identical, "companion-thread" to solicit input from those of my own colleagues in the "Conservative Right".

YOUR input will be especially valuable in your capacity as an energetic, spirited, and well-informed member of the "Liberal Left".

Please help out, Te, if only because neither the Russians nor the Chinese WANT us Americans to be able to compromise on ANYTHING. They'd much rather have us scattered, confused, and hating each other, and growing ever weaker....

 

I am a democrat and I want a secure border and jail terms for hiring illegals. The point is not what the radical 10 percent of either the left or right want it is the middle 80% that count. The point of the thread is to try to get a consensus of the left leaning group and a consensus of the right leaning group and see what can be worked out so that that 80% is satisfied.

Just take gun control for instance, 10% of the right does not even want the government to know they have a gun and how many and what kind. 10% of the left wants to confiscate all private guns. We can throw out those and try to build a consensus among the 80% majority. screw the nut jobs.