10% of the population has an IQ lower than 83, what this means

as was pointed out to me by my psychology prof some 40yrs ago..."on what basis can you compare the intelligence of an individual who has no education but thrives in a hostile jungle environment to an educated westerner" ...what kind intelligence test can you give that can reconcile the extreme culture differences?

 

Believing that intelligence is genetic is eugenics.

 

People dig domestic sized ditches by hand all the time where I live. The reason they do so, when trenching tools are available, is to save money. Digging a 5 metre x 600mm (deep) ditch will cost you a couple of days labour, but $2000 using a hired guy and his machine.

 

I wouldn't define that as a ditch, more of a trench, I'll do it in a day by myself(depending on soil type)...I think I could probably still get someone with a skidsteer to do it for $500(I realize prices aren't the same everywhere) me being cheap I did that by hand all the time... I dug a longer trench but half the depth in clay and rock last summer in an afternoon, very hard work for retired an old dude with bad knees...

 

It's minimum $2000 for a guy and machine for one afternoon, here. That's why we do it by hand. Those guys don't get a lot of domestic jobs, obviously. At least, not in the ordinary middle class and working class areas.

 

Contemplate this; kids are not parents and parents are not kids...they are two totally separate entities.

Fact; lots of kids don't have involved parents, or single working parents, or less than desirable home environment, etc. etc. Further, many times there comes the time in kids life when communication with parents is quite challenged. You wish to argue about parents when you should be arguing about kids and schools. If any kid has involved parents this is a huge bonus in life! But you cannot design a public education based on requiring 100% involved parents. SO...how can we better educate kids FULL knowing we cannot depend on the parents?

 

You are stuck on parents as a solution which in reality is impossible for a large percentage of kids...so why keep harping about parents?

 

You have repeatedly asked me to 'do something about it'. Clearly, you think it's reasonable to ask others to do that which you refuse to ask the parents to do.

And parents ARE the solution. Sadly, raising peoples' children for them just encourages even less parental involvement. If you genuinely want to see change, it MUST come from parents.

 

I'm a parent with two kids...I'll pay you $10,000 if you can change my entire sphere of parental involvement simply from your words here in this forum.

I'll give you another $10,000 if you can get Congress to pass legislation that forces/demands/requires ALL parents to be reasonably involved in their kids education.

Here's another fact; You cannot call something a solution if it cannot be reasonably implemented...

 

Well...millions of Americans disagree with you on this one! We volunteer and support a local food bank and I promise you the 50,000 people we feed disagree with you...

 

This is not a discussion about RAISING children...it was a discussion about public education...

 

It's not designed for that now. Never was, never will be. It's designed to be accessible to the most, to make of what they will. And as more and more 'help' is given, the less and less you'll see responsible parenting take place. Expect to see far more kids failed (by their parents, and by any system which allows their parents to take it easy), if you want more from govt/schools.

 

They may disagree, but they'd be liars. This is the rich and welfare assisted West, not Bangladesh.

 

ALL education depends upon participating parents.

 

I can and do. Because it IS the solution.

Your own words reveal your fundamental agreement. You specifically said 'cannot be reasonably implemented'. I'm sure it feels most unreasonable to parents who don't care for responsibility, to be asked to be responsible. But it is entirely reasonable to expect adults to care for their own children.

 

So you believe nearly all kids today are accessing and completing their K-12 public education?

Have you looked at high school failure rates?
High school dropout rates?
Kids in college with 5th grade reading comprehension?

Can you not see any room for improvement?

Yes, a lack of parental involvement is a problem but not hold the kids hostage while you try to figure out how to change the parents...

 

Check the definition for EMPATHY and COMPASSION...

 

BINGO! Good luck to those kids with little to no parental involvement! Good luck to kids who live in ghettoes, crime zones, environments not suitable for reading and studying...

 

You think that enabling wastrels to continue buying booze, cigarettes, fast food, smartphones, tattoos, etc .. while you supply their food via the hard earned money of responsible people, is compassionate? That's some very interesting morality you have there, I'll give you that.

 

Yes, ALL. Public or Private. If you don't like it, don't have kids.

 

I'd suggest a two prong approach, schools to help those kids that suffer parental indifference or incompetence as much as possible and two, educate future generations of parents while they're still in school before they have children...

people have this opinion that because they can make kids they're automatically experts in raising them too parents all claim to know what's best, but few do, we're all novices at raising children and we all make mistakes...I took prenatal classes before my first child but in hindsight it was really inadequate in preparing us for taking a child home from the hospital "here's your baby, now go home and try not to kill it!"...after a few brief prenatal sessions it was learn as you go and whatever mistakes you made hopefully you didn't mentally damage/handicap your child..

 

There is little the schools can do, once the horse has bolted. But they most certainly can try to educate future parents. That should always be the goal of any changes to the system. Forget those kids already in the system, it's too late for them .. and VERY shortsighted to allocate funds and resources to them, while ignoring the actual problem - future parents.

 

I gotta disagree, I think there's a lot a school can do to turn kids around, many kids turn out very different than their parents usually better educated and more open minded.... you won't save all of them but you have to try...

 

I believe teachers already do try .. most will go well above the call of duty to help and support a motivated student. But that motivation has to come from the child. You can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved, and it's morally reprehensible to try. When you try to save such people, you leave those who actually want saving to 'drown' - in which case you lose the lot. Better to focus available resources on those who will use them. And teachers very definitely already do that.

The problem is so bad we're talking about it, not because schools/teachers have become worse, but because parents have become worse. You can't fix your ankle by treating your elbow.

 

KNOWLEDGE AND KNOW-HOW

Of course there is. Look up the definition!

What is important is not "intelligence with which one is born", but the ability to learn. Which does not always mean that the most intelligent are always at the top of the income-ladder.

But does mean that those who learn-to-learn (that is are taught adequately how to assimilate new ideas) are most adept at a very large number of tasks. And as such, they tend to raise the national average of income.

For which, it would help nicely were Tertiary Education free, gratis and for nothing. Free education must not stop at secondary-schooling but should continue into to tertiary schooling as well. Why?

Because we have left the Industrial Age when most jobs were created in manufacturing industries. We are now squarely in the Information Age (of Services) where knowledge and know-how are the key attributes of any well-paid job ...