I've Now Read 100% of the Redacted Report | My Final Word

Yeah how dare Trump question the FBI and DOJ working with Hillary Clinton to accuse him of being an agent of Putin.

 

Yet, now the whole world sees the corruption and incompetence, that is at the core of Trump. From the beginning I have been saying that Trump has the type of personality that can be played, even though he thinks he is always in charge. Did not Kim play him. Have not the Saudis and Russians also been playing him? Why is it, do you think, that he so readily cuddles up to dictators? Could it be that he can relate to the corruption? Is that why he has so offended the Western democracies? They aren't open to his corrupt, and ignorant, ways.

 

I agree up to this point on technical grounds as I have read and understood the law.

There was a lot more than just WikiLeaks. Again, you'll have to read the Report to understand this. Cohen, Junior, Manafort, Papa, Stone, Kilimnik, etc., etc., etc., were involved in other contacts with Russians and/or Ukrainians on other issues. For example, Cohen, is directly contacted a Russian, who promises him that they can "engineer" the election results in favor of Trump. Cohen, pursues this individual because Cohen, is busy trying to get Trump, into a face-to-face meeting with Putin, about a commercial real estate deal in Moscow. Cohen, was willing to accept any contact from Mother Russia, because talks between Trump and Russia regarding the deal had previous stalled. You have to read the Report to understand the context here. Cohen, was desperately trying to jump start those talks with Russia, while the iron was hot - meaning why Trump, was running for President here in the United States. All by itself, that is impeachable material.

You cannot run for President of the United States and at the very same exact time allow yourself to engage or be engaged with Putin, over a commercial deal. That's just wrong. It is unethical at minimum and impeachable by any definition. You cannot be President of the United States of America, while placing your own personal interest above the American People, any by putting yourself into a position where you can easily be manipulated by a Foreign Power who seeks nothing but harm on the United States. That's impeachable on its face.

But, the Media never pushed the story to you that way and it did not reinforce this reality on a nightly basis. Instead, the Media pushed imminent threat of Indictment. That was wrong. That mislead America. I am equally pissed off at Trump and his Campaign, as I am our Media for not covering this story properly and for engaging in ratings and social engineering through politics. Read the Report. There is a lot more than just WikiLeaks here. These guys had a serious hard-on for Putin. The question is why? The answer is business dealings having zero to do with actually being President of the United States of America. The other answer is that Trump and his people knew full well that they were being promised something from Russia and/or the Ukraine that could topple Trump's opponent here at home That was more than enough to trigger someone inside Trump's Campaign to make those contacts known. Trump, never did that. That show "complicit behavior." That's impeachable.

This was never about Indictment, folks. Nor, should it have been under the Nixon Standard.

In real terms, in the reality of how our legal system works, this is high subjective given the facts the Trump Campaign put into play. The contacts, phone calls, emails, text messages, internet postings and private meetings that involved Russian interference without Trump notification to US officials, would very well be argued in a court of law by a highly skilled Prosecutor that indeed, conspiracy to commit election fraud did take place. But, again, this requires a trial, which requires an indictment, which Mueller simply was not in a position to provide given the historical precedent set in the Nixon Standard on not indicting a sitting President.

I believe the case for "conspiracy to commit" could be successfully prosecuted, but we are talking about the President here. I know it sounds like I'm saying the President is above the law and in some ways I am saying exactly that. It is not that I think the President is or should be above the law, but when you establish historical precedent for not indicting a sitting President, by definition you give the President immunity from the prosecutorial process. It is not etched in Law, because the United States Constitution does not directly address this issue. It deals with Separation of Powers, which OLC used in formulating its memorandum. In other words, that you cannot empower one branch (the Congress) with the authority to criminally indict the other branch (the President). So, impeachment protocols were establish to handle the redress of a President who abuses his powers.

The problem here is that Donald Trump, was not the President at the time he colluded with Russians. This makes it even more difficult for indictment of a sitting President for things he did while as a Candidate and not yet sworn in as President. This also places even more of a requirement to rely on the criminality of "conspiracy to commit" and/or "obstruction of justice after the fact."

We've never had a Presidential Nominee do this before. Ergo, we don't really have cutting edge legal tools to incise this properly and cleanly. We are in uncharted waters here. The best tool I can see is impeachment and/or a heavily laden censure talking both Oral and Written form and placed squarely in the public domain.

 

Post a link to an excerpt in the Mueller Report showing this. This is about the Mueller Report and what it says about what took place before, during and after the 2016 election.

 

He engaged in Attempted Obstruction of Justice. There is a difference Obstruction of Justice and Attempted Obstruction of Justice. There's a difference between Murder and Attempted Murder. There's a difference between Conspiracy and Attempt to Commit Conspiracy. I wonder if Shapiro, informed his viewers/readers of these distinctions. I did not see him, so you can comment on that.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, on what grounds is it impeachable?

As for the deal he was trying to reach with Putin on the Moscow Project, clearly he felt he needed to lie to the public about it. But for his base supporters it doesn't make a difference and arguably wouldn't have made a difference in how they voted. They have no problem with Don working with a murdering despot who is trying to bring down our democracy. None whatsoever.

 

The only way to establish INTENT is to find a way to prove that the person took actions to purposefully hinder an investigation.

There were no actions taken to keep Mueller or anyone on the team from completing their investigation.

The 2nd part of the report is worthless because no actions were taken.


The Dems had better be careful about inviting Mueller to testify because he will be under oath and the Republicans can ask him more than just softball questions.

 

That is much the way I see it. Putin probably investigated Trump and decided that he was too loose a nut, to trust. So the Russians put in their help when and where they could. They didn't have to make a formal agreement.

At the Trump tower meeting, the exchange for "dirt on Hillary" was to ease sanctions, and to ease transference of money between the two countries, a move that would mostly help just the Russian oligarchs.

Thomas Jefferson wrote of a curious phenomenon. In royal families, typically, no matter how powerful, or how intelligent the original monarch was, his offspring degraded in intelligence and physical vitality. After a few generations, the monarch tended to be so inept, that he was overthrown. Nowadays, the same phenomenon can be seen in wealthy families. Take for instance the Bush family. There is a clear step down from Prescott to George, to lil' George. Same with Trump. His grandfather, and then his father built the family business. Donald has been mostly living off of what he got from them. It doesn't take more than about five minutes of listening to him, to realize that Trump isn't all that bright. His children even less so. Wasn't that what Mueller said about Don Jr? That he was literally too stupid to know he was doing wrong.

 

There is attempt to commit conspiracy in this case. It would be a textbook case for that, if the principle were not the President. Again, those surrounding the President told many lies to cover the conspiracy. Mueller, followed the OLC memo, the Nixon Standard (as I call it) and did not attempt to criminally indict the President. Instead, he laid out what took place before, during and after the election. When you read the material, who was involved, what they did, what they said, how the reacted to being told that Russians and/or Ukrainians were trying to impact the election, it becomes quite clear that attempt to commit conspiracy actually took place. However, if Mueller, takes down everyone involved in that, but does not criminally indict the President, it would be highly irregular and quite obvious the President was above the law.

This was Mueller's dilemma. If I indict everyone involved in the conspiracy to commit election fraud, I must also indict the President. I'm following OLC standards which do not allow the indictment of a sitting President. Ergo, I cannot indicate anyone with material connections to the President, without raising the specter over the question of why I failed to indict the President. Conundrum 101. Else, go after everyone involved on ancillary matters that were criminal, show material in my Report that clearly supports collusion, but split legal hairs in my conclusion and claim that I was unable to find "sufficient evidence" that led to "collusion." "Sufficient Evidence."

Mueller, had a hell of a job from the start, if you allow OLC to dominate the legal question of indicting a sitting President. I would not want to be Mueller. Although, if I were, I'd probably work my way through to the same or similar conclusion. If we are going to start Indicating sitting Presidents, then we are going to have to simply say: No more above the law treatment for sitting Presidents. Right now, the President sits slightly above the law in all applicable terms. There's just no other way to put it. I could sugar coat it, but that would not be telling the truth of the matter. The President is above the law when it comes to most criminal indictments unless that President does something criminal that carries with it a particular kind of deeply immoral component. Murder, would classify as something which should get the President indicted even while being in office. He'd literally have to murder someone in cold blood. Literally.

Otherwise, we allow our President's to walk on water like "J"esus. We believe our Presidents can heal the sick, cause the blind to see, cause the cripple to walk, raise the dead, travel all the way to hell and back after defeating the Devil on his own turf. So, certainly, we can allow our Presidents to avoid a mere common criminal indictment. Without question we can do that. No doubt about it.

This could be argued, sure. That he created a situation where we now have to resolve the matter of OLC once and for all. Is OLC outdated? Without question, we need a better mechanism for dealing with Candidates running for office who eventually get sworn in as President, but who did something either unlawful or egregious while they were on the campaign trail. Once they raise their right hand and take the oath of office, they are provided a level of immunity offered up by the Doctrine of Separation of Powers. Once they are sworn in, it is no longer a simply matter of prosecuting the individual because individual is now the one who holds Executive Office. The Office itself now provides layers of protection for the individual.

We learned in Tort Law that it was necessary to allow for the piercing of the corporate veil. Maybe we will learn the necessity to allow for the piercing of the Execute Office with criminal indictment when the factual circumstances vehemently call for it. This would require an evolution in our current political doctrines.

I think you are right on all other points mentioned.

 

Still pulling nuggets out of the report.

Feb. 14, 2017, Don asks for Flynn's resignation. Later in the afternoon, in a private meeting, he asks if Comey can go easy on Flynn.

Hours later, Don told JT MacFarland to write a letter claiming Don had not told Flynn to discuss sanctions with Kislyak.

Don's first instinct is always to lie.

 

[/QUOTE]
The operative word there is 'if'. You don't have to take it that way and there is absolute no reason to grammatically at any rate. They are separate paragraphs one is not the predicate for the other. One details what the Russians tried to do the other that team Trump was not complicit in those attempts.

 

Trump engaged in Conspiracy To Commit Election Fraud. Mueller, cannot make the legal connection due to circumstances outside his control. The United States Congress has the authority to impeach, but is so dysfunction that it can't fine toilet paper sufficient to wipe its own ass Monday through Saturday and twice on Sunday. When you take the time to actually read all of the Report, this is what you conclude. They did indeed "collude" with Russians who were skyjack our elections. The evidence for that is clear and Mueller, spells it out for you. Mueller, had to deal with OLC, history, precedent and constitutional pending crisis had it gone full blown indictment on Donald Trump. That would have meant indicting a sitting President. We don't do that under our current political system. Like it or not, we just don't. We instead rely on Separation of Powers and the Impeachment Process to bail us out whenever we get ourselves into trouble like this.

The problem is that we've never seen this curve ball before where a Candidate running for office engages a Foreign Adversary for help in getting them elected. Thus, we have no real tested tools that enable us to effectively deal with this. It was inevitable. This was going to happen at some point in our nation's history. Some Presidential Candidate was going to test the waters and now here we are. What we do next is the most import thing. If we allow this precedent then we invite further abuses of the system. Pure and simple. If we allow this precedent to stand, then we deserve all the fallout the comes along with it in the years to come.

Trump, ran his commercial organizations this way and believed that he could run his Campaign and ultimately the Oval Office this way. He's got decades of Dictatorship experience at the corporate level under his belt, so nothing in his life will remove that belief system anytime soon. He's set in his ways because it worked for him in corporate settings for so many years. He's now teaching his sons and daughter to follow in his footsteps, which means at least three more dictatorial personalities in the corporate world that employees and contractors who never get paid will have to deal with. Nothing new here.

When you are a pathological narcissistic liar who gets high from the smell of your own fesses, there is nothing in the world that will change you. In fact, it is ludicrous for anyone to think they can change Trump. This is the kind of persona that will go to its grave honestly believing that they and they alone are right, all the time, and without reservation for any modicum of error on their part - even when they are drowning in their own self induced error.

The inability to see Trump, for what he truly is based on his deeds, character and actions is the most "amazing" thing of all, IMO. He's clearly a full blown Reprobate based on his own actions, but some refuse to acknowledge this fact. Trump and Trump alone is the reason why we are here having this conversation today, instead of talking about the development of a New Energy Technology based Economy that will help us compete with China's coming dominance in global economic terms. I'd love to be talking about how we get rid of our $22 Trillion national debt, but here we are, trying to digest the Mueller Report instead. Trump, caused that. It was Trump's Campaign who reached out to Russians and Ukrainians during the campaign. It was Trump's Campaign that acknowledged and even encouraged the dissemination of and even the production of more stolen information that would help him get elected. It was Trump's Campaign that fostered emails, phone calls, text message and it was Trump's Campaign that arranged, cooperated with and coordinated meetings with Russians for the express purpose of discussing material that was deleterious to Trump's political adversary. It was Trump's Campaign who lied about those connections to Russians who made offers to provide influence in our elections. It was Trump's own Family Members (Trump Junior) who engaged in direct communications with a Russian Operative claiming to have connections with Putin, and claiming to be able to "engineer" the outcome of the elections to Trump's favor. And, all that is just the tip of the iceberg.

My dear friend. I am no Democrat. I am no Liberal. I am a Douglas Republican. I am something you have not seen practiced in mainstream Conservative Politics for well over 100 years. I am a Real Republican with Real Republican Values. I am what being a Republican used to mean in America. I'm all about independence, duty, honor, responsibility, family values, morals, ethics, integrity, character, principles, priorities, freedom, self sufficiency, teamwork, leaving on team member behind and unbridled adherence to the United States Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. THAT is Republican.

Don't ever question my loyalty to Republican Values again. You won't find anyone on this Forum more "Republican" than me. I'm a rare bird. There just are not a lot of people like me out there anymore. We cannot support the current Political System in this country because we KNOW it is severely broken and detrimental to our Republic. But, we are massively outnumbered on both sides. So, we wait. We hope and pray that both you clowns (Liberals and So-called "Conservatives") don't run the country into the ground before the Republic and the Constitution can be fully Restored to their rightful places within our shores.

Every American should be a Real Republican, because THAT is what will make our country truly Great. I know the real History of this country. I know the fake, phony Conservative take-over of the party. I know that Liberal ideology will destroy the fabric of this country eventually. And, I know that we are running out of time to change course before anarchy takes over. Donald Trump, is not a Republican. He's an Opportunist. Support that? No.

 

The operative word there is 'if'. You don't have to take it that way and there is absolute no reason to grammatically at any rate. They are separate paragraphs one is not the predicate for the other. One details what the Russians tried to do the other that team Trump was not complicit in those attempts.[/QUOTE]


Read the Report and get back to me after you have done so. If you still believe this man and his campaign did not engage in at least Criminal Intent To Commit Campaign Fraud, I'll respect your opinion. But, until you do the work, you don't really know what you are saying. I've done the work. I know what the report contains and what it does not contain. I have posted excerpts here to inform you of what the Report says. There is no altering the meaning of the Report when it discusses facts. Facts are facts. Opinion is opinion. However, opinion after reading the facts is an educated opinion. I prefer the latter to the former.

Tackle the Report to educate yourself. It might also benefit you to read the relevant portions of the OLC Memorandum, so you can at least try to get into the head of Mueller, and understand what he was dealing with.

 

No need to encourage the dems, they have nothing to offer, but their hate for Trump. Three years of being shown to have been nothing but fools and conspiracy kooks. Two years of manic hysteria, lies and false narratives taught the dems nothing.

So they will invent new wild conspiracy theories, base upon more crazy false assumptions, third party innuendo, with the insane Democrat media forming one giant circle jerk, where they feed off each others rumors, false assumptions and unnamed sources claiming to have inside info.

 

Which just illustrates how political in nature the Mueller report was.

You don't need 400+ pages for the prosecutor to say he there was not sufficient evidence to charge.

 

That was Shapiro's whole point. There is no impeachable crime for "attempted" this or that. Trump basically failed to obstruct anything and the only reason they're pushing it now, is because he didn't collude either. He either randomly spoke his mind in frustration that led to nothing or suggested someone should go do something, which they didn't, so it also led to nothing. He didn't collude. He didn't obstruct. He didn't really do anything besides make Liberal heads explode when he beat their queen, with barely any experience in politics or a plan=) Puts it all into perspective, hehe.

Compare it to Hillary destroying evidence to cover up everything she was doing on a server that shouldn't exist, that was being used SPECIFICALLY to prevent the govt from watching what she was doing wrong. And when she got caught, she either destroyed the evidence or attempted to destroy it. And whatever was left wasn't enough to put the bitch in prison, because as we know now, she didn't "recall" doing anything she wasn't supposed to do about 80 something times. And apparently having the server and destroying the evidence on it wasn't intended to hurt the govt, since all she was doing was protecting herself FROM THE GOVT. Yes, it was that ****ed up. =) If she can walk for that, they can't lay a finger on Trump because he barely did a thing.

Oh well. On to 2020. ha!

 

Read the Report and get back to me after you have done so. If you still believe this man and his campaign did not engage in at least Criminal Intent To Commit Campaign Fraud, I'll respect your opinion. But, until you do the work, you don't really know what you are saying. I've done the work. I know what the report contains and what it does not contain. I have posted excerpts here to inform you of what the Report says. There is no altering the meaning of the Report when it discusses facts. Facts are facts. Opinion is opinion. However, opinion after reading the facts is an educated opinion. I prefer the latter to the former.

Tackle the Report to educate yourself. It might also benefit you to read the relevant portions of the OLC Memorandum, so you can at least try to get into the head of Mueller, and understand what he was dealing with.[/QUOTE]

Already read it. You assume things not present in the report. If you want to read between the lines and pull crap out your ass be my guest but there is no collusion. There were attempts by Russia to penetrate team Trump at best and at least some of those were set ups by Comey McCabe et al, mist notably the Russian lady lawyer. But it was never a two way street whether that was because the Trump campaign was too decentralized for the Russians to get a real handle on what was going on or they were to stupid as some here would have you believe is largely a moot point since the end result was the same - no collusion.

 

But obviously- you hate Trump, so you would prefer Clinton? Impossible if you are going to be equally critical when it comes to character.

What was good politics in Stephen Douglas day is one thing- but the people then and now are vastly different. I don't mean in a good way; I think character is no longer respected and admired as it once was, and people today wold not support the values of personal responsibility and independence that existed then. While it is easy to align yourself with what you believe is the right position, it also must be something that can work at the time and place you live today. I fully agree that today's dismissal of traditional values and the responsibilities that go with them is a huge mistake, because the country as a whole is only the sum of it's parts. You can't have a solid nation with a population of weak, dependent and gullible people.
I don't have an answer as to how to re-instill those values. They are usually handed down by the family, by the examples we see as we grow- and today, parents no longer understand that raising a child is the process of building a self-sufficient, strong adult. We are raising adult children- physically mature, mentally... not so much.

 

Well here's, for example, a news story on CBS.

Tell me what all the lies are.

Judiciary Committee subpoenas McGahn, ex-White House counsel who defied Trump
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/muelle...hite-house-counsel-who-ignored-trumps-orders/

 

What part of the DOJ rule not to indict a sitting President don't you understand.

 

no-one has been able to provide a somewhat coherent argument as to what Trump did wrong...

collusion? no

obstruction? how? How did Trump obstruct justice when there was was no justice to be served, there was no crime? He thought about firing Mueller as the whole thing was a waste of taxpayer $$ and a witch hunt. Let me also add that he has the legal and constitutional authority to fire anyone in DOJ.. they work for him.

This is a NOTHING BURGER and the left is ANGRY, VERY ANGRY... They are so vile that they were wishing that there was collusion, for political gain, at expense of Country. Disgusting...

 

I don't think they have thought it out very well.

 

To be precise this pretty much defines the RINOs and their leftist political allies involved in this hoax and scam called Trump/Russia collusion. But now that Barr is investigating what really happened and why it happened that the nation was gripped by a Hillary Clinton bought and paid for Russian dossier hoax they finally will be getting theirs. So . . . no sweat.

 

Yep and a really stinky one as well . . . as the Dems . . . and their media lackeys continue to beat that dead horse into a pulp: