People are not racists because they DO racist things...

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    It didn't backfire in 1998. That's a myth. Republican won the Presidency in 2000. Besides., Clinton was immensely popular. Trump is not.

    Thinking outside the box, impeachment itself could be a purpose. Why not? If it allows to bypass the court bureaucracy that Trump has completely mangled up. Democrats may have to stop being the "by the book" guys for a change.

    In what way will forcing all those involved in Trump's crimes (I think that Trump himself) to testify under oath before TV cameras benefit Trump? Even if Trump is not removed. And I'm not too sure that he won't.

    I'm also not too sure that that is the thinking of the Democratic leadership.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  2. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    No. You're the one who argued that, if it's in Webster's, it's real.

    Care to correct that now?
     
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  3. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is pathetic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  4. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Only in the minds of racists, and in the minds of people who are not yet aware that there is not scientific basis for them.

    It also exists in colloquial language, but that is meaningless.

    1- I'm afraid you are projecting. You were the one who argued that if a word existed in the dictionary, then the "object" described by it must also exist.

    2- "Term" is not the same as "word"
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  5. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell that to Webster.
    Race is a word. It may also be a term, but it is still a word.
     
  6. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Sure is. That's why you need to back track. Quick! You don't want people thinking that you believe that ghosts and werewolfs are real, do you?
     
  7. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Webster knows. Just like they know that Thor and Apollo don't exist. You're the only struggling with it.

    So? "Elf" is also a word. Finish your thought. Or backtrack. I highly recommend the latter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  8. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You ceased to make sense a long time ago. Websters clearly identifies what is real and what is imaginary. They do not call race either imaginary or made up. They identify several races.
    Words and terms are all made up. They did not just magically appear. I believe just about every one understands that, but for some reason you do not. For a scientist to call "race" a made up word is rather silly, when you think about it.
     
  9. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    vampire
    noun
    vam·pire | \ ˈvam-ˌpī(-ə)r \
    Definition of vampire

    1: the reanimated body of a dead person believed to come from the grave at night and suck the blood of persons asleep
    ...
    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vampire


    Where does it identify what is real and what is imaginary????

    Oh my God! You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Just... focus on saving face now that your "logic" has revealed that you believe in vampires.
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Racism wouldn't be able to function if the features are arbitrary. They are observable.

    If the feature of the organism doesn't exist in any observable way, how can it be thought of as a feature of a superior verity of the species?

    If race doesn't exist racism can't.
     
  11. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of us are smart enough to realize that dead people do not come from he grave at night, without being told.
    Where do you think words came from?

    I sincerely believe you have completely lost it.
     
  12. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Racism wouldn't be able to function if the features are arbitrary. They are observable.

    If the feature of the organism doesn't exist in any observable way, how can it be thought of as a feature of a superior verity of the species?

    If race doesn't exist racism can't.
     
  13. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Do you believe that the group of people who put together the dictionary believed that race referred to some imaginary concept and that vampires were real? That seems to be what you believe.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Where did you get the idea that if they are arbitrary they are not observable? The only physical feature that matters is observable: white.skin. That doesn't make it less arbitrary.

    There are other features that may not be easily observable: like religion, or country of origin, But they become observable when people make them public
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  15. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is a racist remark.
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Then how do you explain that the word "vampire" is in Webster's if your argument is that "races" are real because the word appears in Websters?

    Other words. Now answer the above.
     
  17. kriman

    kriman Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of us are smart enough to distinguish between real and imaginary.
    Where did the "other words" come from?
     
  18. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    BS. Stop trying to change the subject. You said that races are real because the word "race" is in Webster's. As are words like "elf", "Vampire", "werewolf", "Thor", .... and so on. Following your "logic" would mean you believe those exist too.

    Do you backtrack your assertion or do you accept you believe in those?
     
  19. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    That's right. You have to distinguish. The dictionary doesn't distinguish for you. That's not what dictionaries do. It is what Science does, though.. Now are you ready to backtrack?.

    Still other words.... and stop wasting time.. it's words begot words begot words.... all the way

    Now... with that out of the way. Answer the question.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  20. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Quite the challenge. Any falsehood they publish you can easily dismiss as a "mistake", and I have to somehow prove that it was published maliciously, so we would both have to be mind readers in agreement with one another. But just like the Daily Stormer can use true facts to prop up a narrative, it's not so much about catching them in a factual lie as it is about how they turn the truth into a lie with spin. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

    https://www.allsides.com/news-source/huffpost-media-bias

    It implies that to very few people.

    I disagree that these statistics prove institutionalized privilege, historic or otherwise. To wit, in most cases, the statistics are even better for you if you're Asian or Jewish, but I don't hear a lot of talk about them having "institutionalized privilege". We are perfectly content to just say "their cultures value education and responsibility" or something of that nature. But it never crosses anyone's mind that maybe white people's culture values those things as well? Oh no, it's gotta be their privilege.

    But anyway, can you put this in the context of your original statement? That was the question.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  21. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    because they are part of the organism they aren't arbitrary. Same way leaf shape difference between a magnolia and a sycamore are not arbitrary.

    I would say skin color doesn't matter. There are for instance very pale skinned black people and very dark skinned Asian people.

    Those aren't features.
     
  22. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    And any that is not a mistake you can easily show that it's a falsehood by the fact that they don't correct it. I've done that exercise several times on this forum with right wingnut media.

    Are you saying that you have no way of knowing those things? Then why do you accuse them of being like that neo-nazi website? Can you do that for that nazi website? I'm sure you can. Why not for the HuffPo?

    You're not making sense. If you don't have a way of knowing that they have lied, don't accuse them of lying, then.

    Reality is not a Democracy. Reality is a dictatorship in which Facts reign supreme. You can't dispute my point? Then my point stands!

    Next!

    What do you think those probabilities mean, then? If more whites are born into conditions that will help them do better in life than blacks, what would you expect other than most whites actually doing better in life than blacks?

    I don't understand what you're saying. "Valuing" has nothing to do with it. They have it! Because more whites are born with that privilege.

    What do you mean? I already did. The privilege is institutionalized. Racists confuse the privilege with "superiority". So they deny that the privilege exists. They had all the advantages: better nutrition, better schools, better neighborhood, less prejudice,.... And their children will likely have the same privilege. The circle it's exactly the opposite for minorities. We have made a little progress to break the circle. But not much.
     
  23. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, their clear and admitted bias nigh compels them, like you, to take statistical facts and twist them to an ideological end. And to use words like "racism" in an ideologically driven way. But upon further reflection, lies is probably the wrong word, because these ideologically possessed dolts probably drank their own Kool-Aid and actually believe the garbage they spew. So lets just call them falsehoods.


    Language does not equal "reality". Language (as in, what the word "racism" implies) very much IS a democracy.

    The point is, whenever a racial group does better than whites, the narrative is always about how deserving they are of it. How their culture, their ways, led them to succeed in society. We don't say they have institutionalized privilege, to rob them of their accomplishments. But that's exactly what you do with white people. The "institutional privilege" you describe mostly consists of the results of diligently maintaining good habits over a series of generations, the exact same reason that other high-achieving racial groups have succeeded and continue to succeed.

    Not all minorities.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    No quotes? I assume you're making it all up.
    Anyone say anything about a monkey? Oh, she not black and not named Michelle.
     
  25. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Be a man.
    tRUMP tRUMPtRUMPtRUMPtRUMPtRUMP
    Are you afraid he was born in Kenya? There's a reason RUMP is in his name.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019

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