Kushner's "deal of the century" falls flat on it's face

Were you around during 1967 and 1973? I was... and believe me when I tell you -- if Israel had wanted to, it could have taken every square inch of territory from the Suez Canal all the way to Damascus, and east to Baghdad. Instead, they bent over backwards to accomodate the Arabs. And what has been the result...?

 

They can take everything west of the Jordan today. The problem ... what do they do with the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza?

Why not set up a protectorate in the West Bank/Gaza and end the occupation?

 

The Jew also got the fear of being stabbed in the neck, run over, bombed and the possibility of being nukes.

 

Thanks for the like. That was unexpected.

I don't think the Palestinians are choosing to live under Israel's occupation or any of the conditions you have described as a result of that occupation.

What you are really saying is that Palestinians could choose to live under Israeli domination and occupation and perhaps Israel may deign to treat them a little better in return for fully giving up their self-determination, any pretense of a two-state solution as long as they fully submit to all Israel's terms and second-class citizenship within a Jewish state.

Who would willingly submit to that?

Iran is not the one looking for a war. The aggression is fully on the side of Americans and their allies in Israel and Saudi Arabia who have an economic boot on Iran's neck and are just looking for a reason to escalate to a shooting war that will cause so much more death and suffering just like all the other death and suffering brought by foreign powers like the US to the ME.

Again, the message to Iran is exactly the same as it is to Palestinians - submit entirely to all our demands, give up any form or dream of self-government or self-determination and do exactly as we say or we will crush you without pity or remorse. Perhaps if you do this we will suffer you some crumbs from our plunder of your lands and resources.

Typically empires who dictated these terms to conquered states and ruled with iron fist cruelty and threats of destruction were on their last legs and could only exist through force and brutal suppression towards subject people - usually subject people who were left in the very dangerous position of having nothing left to lose. America is just the latest example of hubris of those same empires blinded into thinking they are militarily invincible and have the right to impose their will completely on others rendered too afraid to resist.

From Egypt to Athens to Rome and Britain this is the fate of empires who overreach their ability to control events and are left with only cruelty, greed, avarice and the debauchery of spectacle to distract as they crumble into the history books.

What empire has ever escaped this fate...........Yet you think yours will be different somehow...............It may have in fact been different if the US had the capacity for reflection or the ability to understand its cruelty or moderate its excesses.

Sadly your empire does not and is rapidly sleepwalking towards its fate while most of its citizens blissfully are sedated by the trappings of what is left of the nations wealth and prosperity - wealth and prosperity rapidly being stolen from the people by a fatuous, bloated, criminal elite who think they are too powerful for anyone to resist.

Overall, a sad spectacle to watch..........

 

If Israel really just wants to be left alone why don't they give back the land they have occupied illegally for all these years and stop its ethnic cleansing of Palestine?

That would go a long way to bringing peace to the Middle East.

 

The Jews also broke that peace for them borders

 

15% of the water Israel uses is drained from the WB.

America isn't so pro-Jew. [/QUOTE]
Pff... it used it veto to help out Israel with it's ethnically cleansing ways. It gets billions of US hard earned taxes every year. In fact, Israel is the country that gets the most of foreign aid help as if it's some 3rd world ravished country.

 

lol....
Israel is ethnically cleansing civilians across their border to make room for their Jews. How on earth can you even think this is an attempt to be left alone? If the Jews in Israel wants to be left alone, than they have to undo their war crimes.

 

Yeah... they are removing their bombshelters as we speak. lol

 

You have a mature, educated historical perspective, even though I do disagree with you about the Palestinians and Israel, per se. Your observation about Egypt, Athens, Rome, and Britain is quite right and illustrates (unfortunately) the very persistent fact that we humans live and develop in insular societies that seek to dominate others.

If I support that behavioral paradigm with regard to Iran and the Palestinians especially, it is because their theocratic, Islamic leadership advocates the most barbaric, inhumane kind of behavior imaginable to all who do not embrace their religion. They are commanded to follow the dictates of the Quran in their treatment of "Infidels", and, in my view, the only thing that keeps them from realizing their apocalytic wet-dreams is the lack of thermonuclear hydrogen bombs. Link: https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx

All the rest of the world's major religions went through terrible periods, marked by wars with others, internecine bloodbaths, and cruelty to anyone that illustrated some of the very worst that we've ever imagined as human beings... the "Spanish Inquisition" comes immediately to mind.... But all that ended many hundreds of years ago for Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, and Judaism.

But the only major religion that still advocates these kinds of things today is ISLAM, practiced enthusiastically by the Islamic Republic of Iran! Truly, if I were an Israeli Jew, I would never rest easy until all Muslims who follow the fanatical dictates of their religious leaders are gone from this earthly existence, and happily sent off to "Islamo-heaven", where many of them long to go as soon as their "Twelfth Imam" makes his supernatural arrival in the world (don't ask me to take both of us down that 'rabbit hole'....).

 

Thanks again. I don't mind being disagreed with or even proven wrong if it is the result of a well-presented argument.

Interesting post with lots of points to follow up. Don't have time this weekend but I will try to address some of this when I get back.

Consider two points in the meantime.

1) During the period that most of Europe was languishing in the dark ages, it was the Islamic world that kept the knowledge of science and math alive (even our number system is of Arabic origin) and that most of that time Islamic governments were quite tolerance and forgiving of other religions and peoples - even Jews.

2) This rise of the most extremist and violent forms of the Islam that we know today were fostered through embrace of a Wahhabi/Salafist doctrine that was in great measure an alliance between the Wahhabi faction and the house of Saud which kept that family in control of Arabia and fully embraced and supported by leaders such as Roosevelt in order for access to oil resources. Combine this with the betrayal of Arab nations by occupying forces after WWI and the arming of fundamentalist Mujahedeen militias that would eventually morph into the Taliban by US leaders such as Brzezinski (who admitted to attempting to draw Russia into its own Vietnam for purely geopolitical brinksmanship).

I think the extremist form of Islam we are experiencing today is an aberration resulting from colonization of Arabic lands and the forced exploitation of resources by foreigners.

I am not religious so I believe Islam is no more brutal or oppressive towards women or others than any other of the Abrahamic forms of faith. Certainly in a historic sense this would appear to be the case - comparing the history of Islam with that of Christianity in lands conquered by both faiths, for instance.

My take on it anyway....certainly open for criticism or discussion.

 

Rather sure I sourced you that even the Israeli's claim they made them civilians leave, and the people who left were just 5% of the Arabs. Besides... something up with leaving? I leave my place rather frequently... it's still mine when I'm not there, and can return when I feel like it. ***MOD EDIT Off Topic Removed***

 

Pff... it used it veto to help out Israel with it's ethnically cleansing ways. It gets billions of US hard earned taxes every year. In fact, Israel is the country that gets the most of foreign aid help as if it's some 3rd world ravished country.[/QUOTE]

Indeed, America gives military aid to Israel. It is surrounded by hostile Arab
nations and every now and then has to face the Russians too.

 

Doesn't really explain the holocaust.

 

so does Egypt, Iraq and Afghanistan. No Jews there.

 

I dont care what some oddball revisionist historian claims

We have those in America too who make disgusting attacks on America

The arabs fled because they thought the vastly superior arab armies would crush the Jews

Which didnt happen

But the arabs who remained have been well treated

 

Satan explains the Holocaust

 

How can it not? Jesus wept over Jerusalem because the Jews did not know the time of
their "visitation." He detailed the destruction of that city and its people. Similar warnings
are told throughout the Old Testament. Every heard that term "Jeremiad" ?? Named
after one of the prophets who foretold the destruction of the Jews.
Jesus said the Jews would return to Jerusalem "when the Gentile's time is fulfilled."
Make of that what you like. Doesn't sound good.

 

So much for you denying the US not being totally pro Jewish Israel, and no rebuke on the Jews leaching the water out of the WB.

 

The bribe Egypt gets has everything to do with Israel. And Israel gets FAR more than those countries you name. FAR more.

 

My source is the Israeli military intelligence, champ. And your opinion about it, becomes a total joke.

<Rule 2/3> Never founded on statistics.

At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations. To this figure, the report's compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration." A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

<Rule 2/3/7>

Do note. It's an Israeli source. The actual truth is probably that maybe less than 1% of the cases the Arabs left due to the call for flight.

 

Chosen to march into the gas chambers.
I don't recall they put up much of a fight.
Some isolated case in Warsaw maybe.

 

Certainly the USA supports Israel. No denying that.
But it wasn't always so, and we know that Americans
and Israelis do spy on each other.
As for "leaching" water - it's up to you to demonstrate
that.

 

What was the result? I ask the Arabs that and they seem to be quite sincere in telling me
that Israel was afraid to go further than it did. Any peace accommodation is seen by many
Arabs as Israeli weakness.

 

The Jews ethnically cleansing around has everything to do with their religion.
Buddhist have ethnically cleansed around in Myanmar in the last 5 years.
Hindu's in India are to blame for large scale religious violence, so says the US.
And the Christian west is the only part of the world fully backing up the Jews ethnically cleansing Arabs.

It didn't end <Rule 2/3>

They haven't stated a war in their entire existence. You can't say that about the Jew state or the Christian west.