Rue, Britannia <<Moderator's Warning Issued>>

Speak softly twice.

 

The British Parliament is open.

Even threatening to withdraw the whip from Tory Members has not been sufficient for anti Tori MP's to fall behind Johnson. 20 to 30 expected to go against him.

It seems his intent is an election but the opposition has agreed it will not go for this until the Benn Bill designed to rule out a No deal on 31st October is passed. 2/3rd agreement needed for Parliament to call an election.

The EU has made it clear it knows nothing about the great moves it has apparently made with Johnson.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...0845a5dab7c6a3#block-5d6e58e18f0845a5dab7c6a3

Already one Tory has said she will be leaving the Conservative Party due to its move to the hard right to becoming the Brexit Party - part of the reason Boris wants an election is the hope of replacing those against No Deal with hard Brexiters.

 

Fewer than half of Americans own passports. Which means an even smaller number have been to the UK or Europe. One can't help but chuckle at them having opinions on a far off place which effects them negligibly.

 

I am unclear what point you are trying to make in response to the bold faced quote you referenced from my post. My post was intended to describe the leavers both then and now. The leave campaign was so full of lies that facts became lint balls in the belly buttons of the Englishmen and women who voted with their fears and prejudices instead of their minds and hopes. There simply is no rational reason to vote to leave, none.

 

Perhaps but can you survive the interval from Brexit to the mythical state of becoming Switzerland? No trade deals are done quickly, they take years and years to negotiate. While you are waiting for the perfect deal, the UK will become an even smaller player globally and its people will suffer. As soon as it all starts to crumble, the leaders who misled you will be off on a junket somewhere making loads of coin and eating truffles while you scrounge for some fish and chips.

 

Cubans aren't allowed to own passports. Depending where in China someone is born, makes the difference to being allowed state education and a passport.

 

A no-deal Brexit would sever decades of the UK's seamless trade with the single EU market of 500 million.

"Poof! You're Switzerland!" is not a realistic prospect.

 

You honestly feel that Britain will no longer trade with Europe and Europe will turn away British tourists?

The EU has created a slave mentality where freedom represents too much danger and personal responsibility. A fear of the unknown, despite British history demonstrating clearly that Britain was most successful when the people were free. Americans demonstrated this when they fought for their own freedom from British rule, and they've proven to be very successful, just as many well run countries throughout the world have demonstrated.

It's truly a shame that the British have given up their independence for what they think is greater security but, to paraphrase the great Ben Franklin, in the end they will not have liberty or security, and deserve neither.

 

No, read it again strawman.

 

Corbyn seems to be participating in that 'smear campaign' and apparently claimed that the holocaust never happened. https://www.cjnews.com/news/interna...his-labour-party-has-an-anti-semitism-problem

 

Perhaps I did misinterpret what you said. What did you mean by this then?

"Only with a no-deal Brexit we'll have massive barriers put in the way of that trade and tariffs put on the things we sell to them.
Instead of seamlessly crossing borders with our trade, money, travellers, goods and services there will be restrictions put on us.
Chances are that violence will return to Northern Ireland and the mainland for imposing a border and breaking the GFA".

 

Seems pretty clear to me. Which bit are you having trouble understanding?

As clear as...

...which confused you so inexplicably.

 

Oddly enough the same specious argument is being made about "American Nationalism" as though anything mildly patriotic towards these countries and the cultures is somehow dangerous. As far as I know it's only applied to first world countries. Hong Kong is never criticized for its 'Nationalism', apart from the Chinese.

 

Okay so you believe there will be 'massive barriers', problems for tourists, and likely violence in Northern Ireland. Is there any basis for these fears or are you just fantasizing?

 

Non Tory MP's and Tory rebels will be voting tonight on taking over Government tomorrow. Johnson has threatened to throw the Tory rebels out of the party. One who will be thrown out for voting with his conscience is Churchill's grandson. The Brexit Referendum was to keep the Tory Party together. This seems to be the final falling apart of the Party and its move to the far right. With one Tory member leaving today they no longer have a majority.

 

Ah, you can comprehend plain English. You were just being deliberately obtuse.

The fears are based on numerous reports from financial institutions, healthcare governing bodies, the CBI, two previous PMs (including one previous Tory PM) and many other sources including a study (which Boris tried to supress) commissioned by the current Government. Also an understanding of the EU trade rules which apply to non-member states.
Do you have any evidence that it is just fantasy.
Before answering, try to remember that ''Project Fear'' isn't evidence it is a bumper sticker slogan.

 

The British have not given up their independence.

 

I have yet to meet anyone who could list a single example of a rule or regulation which was forced on the UK without the approval of Parliament.
Not surprising really as no such example exists.

Often, just to mess with them, I ask why the EU was unable to force us to use the Euro and give up our Pound.

 

The assumption that people voted leave on a rational basis is a big claim.
There is no rational explanation that can withstand scrutiny, or has withstood any scrutiny so far.
The vote to leave won, even if it was an emotional vote, a cry for help, or an expression of hatred for foreigners, or even because of some kind of nostalgic dream.
The present situation is that leave won.
The winners sadly don't know what to do with that victory and seemingly indulge in operation blame as a result.

 

In fact it's up to you to support the fears you have, not me. I'm not convinced they're real.

 

The part I pointed out was where you claimed the Brexiters were complaining about problems with deals. They are not. They want No deal. It seemed to me that you had put in something which was not a complaint from the leavers but from those opposing No Deal.

 

Based on what?

 

Then why do they have to negotiate to leave the EU? Are the Brits still able to proudly fly the Union Jack and St.George flags without any recriminations of being 'racist' or 'extreme right wing'? They could once. Something has changed the culture of the once proud Brits.

 

Forget it. I'll look for someone more intelligent.

 

They clearly don't all want a no-deal Brexit.
One Tory MP crossed the house today because of his opposition to one and several others have made clear their intent to vote against the Government's plans to proceed with it.
Polls seem to suggest a fairly even split between the 3 options of deal, no-deal and remain amongst the public.