Trump signs sanctions bill against German pipeline

Nothing is "the same" at some level.

The point is that spacemen is stupendously expensive and any benefit is tiny.

I do not see a justification.

 

Humans must do great things. And great things does not involve watching camera signals carried by robots.

 

i like space exploration.

If someone has an arguement that sending humans is worth the unbelievably gigantic expense, I'd listen.

Lets remember that the cost of Artemis I would pretty much wipe out NASA - it's ongoing science, all other missions, the work it does on studying Earth (which includes information needed by agriculture), etc.

Yes, Trump has allocated SOME more budget. But, not even close to enough to keep NASA doing its science while Artemis does it's spacecowboy thing.

 

The scientific return by the Apollo program was a thousand times (at least) more than all the unmanned lunar programs combined.

 

Again......who cares?

 

Our space program does NOT limit to cameras. Not even close.

And, we ARE doing great things. Any suggestion that we're not doing great things is just plain ridiculous.

We haven't even bothered to explore the depths of our oceans - even just by camera!

There is plenty for us humans to do. And, we need to evaluate our science budget based on progress in science.

Why would YOU of all people on this board suggest spending huge tax dollars on spacemen?

 

Glad you think so, but don't ask for your help with the Russains.

 

This is absolutely NOT true.

Apollo certanly was huge, as we didn't have much on the moon back then.

Here are some of the laning sites. And, there are orbiters that have studied all sorts of data remotely, including moon's core, atmosphere, gravity, etc.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/multimedia/moonimg_07.html

 

[Btw thanks for the translation: you did a better job than I could have].

Isn't it the same in ANY western democracy?

If Xi Jinping can hold China together for another decade, without too much repression of his own people, (and outwitting Trump at the negotiations table...), China will be so far ahead that Churchill's famous remark about democracy will finally be shown to be nonsense.....

http://www.ethicalmarkets.com/neoliberalism-has-met-its-match-in-china-by-ellen-brown/

I share you views on Krugman; have you heard of Stephanie Kelton or Warren Mosler, who similarly dismiss Krugman's neoliberal orthodoxy?

The "don't want to work" concept sounds like garden variety Conservative mythology to me, although I admit 1200 Euros per month sounds generous, if indeed that figure is true (depending on living costs).

 

yankee swine
Are you serious with these cliches

You might as well start bragging about how Snoopy lost to the Red Baron

 

I can't take credit for the translation... I just did a cut/paste to and from Google Translate. It's much faster than me, and probably more accurate than I'd have been anyway.

I don't know Kelton or Mosler, but I learned to scoff at Krugman after reading his slanted gibberish in columns of his over the years.

The "don't want to work" situation is very REAL among a surprising number of Millennials and Gen Z'er's in Germany. They milk their parents AND the government, and by sucking on both of these sources, these lazy bastards don't have to do anything. Sure, they live like bottom-feeders, but if that's all they really are, it's enough to satisfy them. Low expectations are met with low amounts of handouts, but evidently the 'dole' lasts until the day you die in Germany....

The tragedy is that there are LOTS of jobs, of many different kinds, that go begging in Germany because lazy goof-off's there won't even apply for them. I do know that for an absolute fact! Example: you can go to work for something as low-brow as the German postal service (Deutsche Post) in less than a week if you meet the few simple requirements involved... no college degree required! The pay is OK, and, as usual, the benefits are very good! Most Americans can't believe how many paid days-off Germans get, in addition to abundant vacations....

 

I asked you directly what Trump has done FOR Putin and you came back with NOTHING! NOTHING!

You think these conniving, scheming Democrats don't "divide" the American people with failed schemes like their "Russia collusion" based on bought-and-paid-for LIES like the 'Steele Dossier'...?! You think they don't divide us with rotten, horrible character-assassinations like the kind they tried to pull on Brett Kavanaugh last year?! You think they don't divide us with idiotic, half-assed 'articles of impeachment' that don't even include an enumeration of CRIMES that Trump is supposed to have committed?!

And at the same time, they completely IGNORE the only real corruption and "quid pro quo" that was committed in Ukraine -- by JOE BIDEN, with his infamous "son of a bitch" intimidation and strong-arm tactic against their government, in defense of his cocaine-huffing son, Hunter, who had a $50,000/month job with the same Ukrainian company involved in corruption investigation! WAKE UP!

Link: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/v...to_ukraine_to_force_firing_of_prosecutor.html

 

c

Can you honestly claim that Americans and the world were as thrilled and inspired by Voyager I & II or New Horizons as they were by the Apollo program?

You can't.

 

Ok, first off I would have no problem being your friend. I could be your "non-German" friend.

Now that I am your friend, I'm thinking that you could use one more guy at that party. I see eight women but only seven guys. If you have an extra girl just sitting around I could be her friend too.

Seriously though, very interesting thread.

Rich

 

Can't you read anymore? Have you suddenly gone blind?

 

At that time, all western countries + the USA.

Germany not so. In case of military conflict, Germany would have been the war zone.

 

So you can use Google Image Search?
I am very surprised.

What was the search term?

 

That's what I say!!

People were so bored of spacemen by Apollo 13 that the broadcast networks refused to show interviews with men in space, watching their 0 g games. People didn't get interested until it looked like they were going to die. At that point, many people didn't even know they were up there!!

Remember that I'm the guy saying moonmen is way too costly and is unnecessary for scientific progress.

As the saying goes, gravity wells are for suckers.

We have companies working on fabrication in earth orbit - building a rocket for moving payloads to more distant places.

There is a 3d printer on board the space station - basically an experiment for building parts in space.

Anything we build in earth orbit does not have to fit inside a rocket faring and undergo the incredibly harsh ride of a launch - the factors that have been so hard for the James Webb telescope to overcome. And, it can be designed for use in 0 g!! So, constraints of gravity can be ignored. THAT is an advantage. The Moon doesn't offer an advantage - nor does Mars. Anything built there must then be launched inside a rocket faring and must withstand the forces and shaking of launch.

 

And that's a major reason West Germany, and Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Denmark, United Kingdom, Norway, Italy, and Greece got away with not living up to their NATO defense spending commitments.

 

As Dr Robert Zubrin points out, manufacturing complex items like space craft in space also means zero quality control. As its impossible to have experts and analysts comb over the vehicle for possible defects.

 

I don't accept that notion.

Sending these "experts and analysts" to the moon or mars is HARDER than sending them to Earth orbit?

Also, the lunar environment is horrendous for assembly.

Moon dust is electrostatic in nature and solar radiation causes it to actually move up in the atmosphere. From there, it is incredibly difficult to remove as it will electronically adhere to anything. Apollo astronauts found this to be a problem. It adheres and then goes pretty much everywhere - through the spacecraft, etc.

The really tough requirements on the James Webb satellite come from having to have it fold up in an incredibly tight package to fit inside the faring.

The problems have come in the number of hinges, the fabrics for the giant sun shade, the photocell arrays, etc., and then undergoing shake tests to simulate launch forces. That has bee the source of delays. None of that would be required were it to be assembled in space.

 

People don't understand Trump. This doesn't have squat to do with buying gas from us instead of Russia, this is all about Germany being a leeching teet sucker on U.S. taxpayer's dime. Germany is a fraud, a pathetic looser who is stealing from us....they subsidize other things for their people except we pay the lion's share of their defense. So of course Trump will go at them this way because he really wants the Germans to pay their fair damn share in NATO. I hope Trump just gives them the middle finger and we pull out of NATO altogether.

Furthermore, Germany could still pay a 30% premium on our gas BECAUSE THEY RETAIN A **** TON OF MONEY WE END UP PAYING FOR.

I don't give a damn if the Germans and the rest of Europe buys Russian gas....Russia trades with all those countries. But we shouldn't be paying to protect Germany from their so-called enemy threat.

 

Germany is an Allie?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.na...ngela-merkel-germany-anti-american-views/amp/

We don’t need friends like Angela Merkel.

 

Here

https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft...astronauten-zum-mond-schiessen-a-1040899.html

Germany builds the service module and in exchange got a seat in first new manned lunar mission. The astronaut chosen for that is Alexander Gerst. They already chose a replacement for him for the ISS, Matthias Maurer. The deal was made with Obama. We already shipped service module. You say Trump will break that deal, use our machine but doesnt follow the agreement?

 

We wont stop the pipeline. You are free to do what you want. You know what a loser is? Someone threatening constantly to do something (leaving NATO) and not doing it. Seriously if tables would be turned, would you take yourself serious if you were us?

With all due respect...but the loser is your country.