White supremacists are trying to cause chaos during the current protests

Utter rot. Are you being facetious or what?

The Carolinas and Georgia, in particular, were prisons, where criminals were "transported" to as a sentence for their "horrible" crimes of stealing a shilling or suchlike

(Australia was too, and is rather famous for it)

The "cream" of society stays put. They surely don't go off to live in a howling and hostile wilderness. The people who came here had pretty much shot their bolt in the old world. They mostly weren't even close to being the best that Europe had to offer.

 

Sure, you will get your convicts, as we call them. These shape the culture to some degree and
that's super interesting. But after them came the gold miners, settlers, graziers, business people
etc..Chinese are throughout all South East Asia and they do really well - dominate the business
like Indians do in Fiji. But for years my family hosted Chinese students and found them not much
different to Aussie students.
America should entice as many smart and rich Chinese as possible. Same for Indian programmers
and engineers. Get that filtering working.
One other group could be in trouble and that's the growing Hispanic population - again, they are
just ordinary citizens who walk across the border - they are going to complete against Jews, Germans
and the like who made a more difficult effort, historically, to get to America.

 

With all due respect, what in the bloody hell are you talking about? The colonies I mentioned were settled mainly by criminals for just about their entire history as colonies. Sure, you had SOME who were coming here to make a new life in America but why do you think they were coming here in the first place? America was most definitely NOT the "land of opportunity" back then, that came later and still didn't mean that you came here because you were really prosperous and well off at home.

America isn't for the "better" people who have done well and worked hard to have well-deserved pleasant existences where they are. People don't uproot themselves and travel several thousand miles because they are the accomplished and successful members of their societies. America is the land of the second chance, the Great Refuge and yes, we really took "the tired, the poor and the wretched refuse". We showed the world that all you have to do is give ANY people freedom and they will beat the stuffing out of your "superior" people any day of the week.

You need to study American history more closely. In fact, I can't help but think you need to look more carefully into your own.

 

...….people like Oprah, or Michele Obama, or Michael Jordan?

Your statement above actually reveals itself to be racist nonsense.

Note: All large groups, by whatever category, reveal a range of abilities among the individuals in the group.

Correct. The indigenous Indians were there 'forever', and the Africans were introduced by force during the European conquest of America.

Correct, as in the population of ANY nation.

{China is in Asia}. Incorrect. There are 588 billionaires in the US, 373 in China.....and China is fast catching up .

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...the-most-billionaires-ranked-2020-2?r=US&IR=T

Incorrect, as shown by the above figures. And the Chinese are actually ahead in 5G technology, at least in cost, and plan to be leaders in AI, by 2025.

All racist nonsense, as outlined above.

And now apparently lots of Americans are not very clever, because 60% of them cannot find $1000 from savings, in an emergency! That's more than 150 million Americans...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/23/most-americans-dont-have-the-savings-to-cover-a-1000-emergency.html

You have now exposed yourself as elitist as well as racist! Charming....

along with 99% of the human race....(see the idiocy of your elitism?)

Chosen? They were enslaved because they didn't have the military technology (of their captors) to prevent their own enslavement, in the 17h century.

But now robots are increasingly supplying 'physical' labour, so that point is redundant anyway (see the idiocy of your racism?)

No kidding! (back to your elitism, no surprise there).

No wonder Aleksander has had an easy job of demolishing your 'analysis' of the 'human condition'. But don't despair, it's never too late to begin to learn about history and economic and.... politics.

Meanwhile, some solutions to deal with the widespread poverty that is behind the sense of injustice sweeping the entire globe, at this very moment?

Remember: HALF the US population is living in a constant state of financial anxiety - as mentioned above. Then you have places like Chile, Lebanon....and the Yellow Vest riots in France, of all places...

 

It's much nicer than what many on the right here are saying.

Embracing worthy family education is good.

Your side has threatened the great majority of America an is now going to get knocked on your electoral back sides this November.

 

It's "racist nonsense" that I say there's probably lazy Indians in India?!!!!
Makes me wonder why India has been so poor for so long - even when
it ruled a large chunk of the planet.
Finding people like Oprah et al doesn't change the dynamic - they are
just the outliers.
It's like this - imagine a Pan African Mars colonization. Africans live on
Mars and bring along African engineers, scientists etc.. And a bunch of
employees from a German contactor go along as chefs, cleaners etc..
After a century or two there would be a real "racist" situation where the
blacks feel superior to the whites, as measured in IQ, education, socio
economics etc.. Whites would have a hard time of it as they are just
average Europeans up against the cream of the African crop. And more
arrivals from Asia, for instance, with high performing individuals, will
ensure the whites stay on the bottom. That's what happens in some
situations like Fiji where the Indians own most of the businesses, or in
Indonesia where Chinese dominate businesses.

 

[QUOTE="a better world, post: 1071763714, member: 71251
Chosen? They were enslaved because they didn't have the military technology (of their captors) to prevent their own enslavement, in the 17h century.
But now robots are increasingly supplying 'physical' labour, so that point is redundant anyway (see the idiocy of your racism?)
[/QUOTE]

Africans, and then Arabs and then whites, did not enslave other Africans
because they were smart, business people. They chose manual laborers,
sometimes people not savvy enough to escape the slave traders.
Nothing to do my "racism." Calling people 'racist' is often just a cop out to
avoid discussion. I am part Bantu myself.
On that point - my ancestors invaded Sth Africa and drove out or killed
many African natives in a form of Zulu total warfare. We met our match with
the Dutch settlers, who allowed many displaced peoples to return. Bantus
had lots of slaves too.

 

No, it's racist nonsense that " There are two groups who will sit on the bottom of US socio economic status forever."

It does change the debate. There are dummies and geniuses in all racial groups.

Now put your brain into gear: poverty can be eliminated because the resources and productive capacity of modern economies do exist.

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-divide.569365/

 

It looks like you're as bad at predictions (and counting) as you are at identifying white supremacists. Good luck with all that.

 

Technologically more advanced people have always conquered or enslaved or demanded allegiance from less advanced people. Whether in intercontinental or intra-continental conquest. Sometimes tribal conflict usually involved peoples with similar military technologies; but Rome prevailed in Britain not so much by technological superiority - Boudacea put up a good fight - but by the Roman state's superior organisational capacity.

no, "they" TOOK them by force

No kidding ...some people were not as clever as others...

maybe, but not in this case: you are racist: "There are two groups - African Americans and native Indians - who will sit on the bottom of US socio economic status forever." Sheer racist nonsense. There are some people who sit "at the bottom", in all race groups. The task of responsible government is to ensure everyone sits above poverty level (at a minimum).

Nice bit of history, which more or less agrees with my opening paragraph above

 

That didn't occur by magic. But it's a data driven conversation, and a long one, that I doubt you're up for. "Data driven" doesn't sound like your forte. But breaking down various demographic factors through the GSS, you can probably come up with behaviors and circumstances that can greatly increase, or decrease, your odds of being in poverty. I don't think you will find some government fiat aimed at Blacks behind any of that.

 

For sure, if you take 10,000 people at random and transplant them to another place
you might have 100 super smart people and 100 who are exceptionally good at
business, for argument sake.
Now take a group of people who desire to emigrate for better opportunities, including
most who can afford their ticket or willing to work hard to pay for their passage. In this
group you might have a thousand super smart people and ten thousand business people.
REGARDLESS OF WHAT NATION YOU PICK THEM FROM.
Of course, if they come from Singapore, Hong Kong or South Korea they might be higher
up in the IQ percentiles, and come from nations with strong business ethics.
That's why you see the Koreans "taking over" businesses in the Bronx NY.
When I go to America I like to do the math in my head by counting how many black businesses
I see in the Bronx, how many blacks I see in libraries and how many I see in museums and
national parks. In libraries the average is 80% Asian and 20% whites - that's a crude indicator
of who is going to make it in America. As it is - Asians and Jews are already on top. You can
call it Yellow Supremacy or Jew Supremacy if you are racially inclined.

 

You will find most blacks missing from business figures - also they are missing from libraries, museums and
national parks. Not recent black immigrants but the "African American" (formerly slave) people. It's not just an
IQ thing, it's a cultural thing.

 

Yes, and then you have the mass of "ordinary people" who have always been required to cope as best they can.

But the issue of the day is the high incarceration rate of blacks in US (and other disadvantaged groups around the globe) and associated issues re criminal law enforcement.

I have offered solutions. You are content with the status quo....which seems to be on rather shaky grounds at the moment, as old symbols of the past are destroyed, like that statue of a former wealthy, mercantile 17th century slave trader which was toppled and tossed into a river, by an angry mob in Bristol, England; and likewise that controversial Confederate statue in the US.

 

I wrote

And you reply with "That didn't occur by magic"...... proving it IS difficult for YOU to understand! (And demonstrating how ideological blindness can cripple the capacity for rational thought).

Of course it didn't occur by magic!!!

All poverty has identifiable causes, and the higher incidence of poverty among blacks also has identifiable causes which must obviously include conditions related to being black.

Try me..... and let's see if you can avoid exposing the ugly aspects of your conservative ideology, while engaging in your "data driven conversation".

"Probably" …....."change the odds" ...…"of being in poverty".... gosh, you have ALREADY exposed the ugliness of your conservative ideology, even before we begin to look at the data.

"White silence is white violence" (seen on a placard, at the peaceful weekend Washington protest).


.

 

Maybe at the next riot it might be 888. The Chinese lucky symbol. So Jake, another antagonistic piece, to try and foment more hate. Don't you get tired of posting crap like this? Pretty sure you can post stuff like this on Facebook or Twitter and you can become a poster star. Right now there are two types of people. Those who are the problem and those who are searching for solutions. Which one do you think you are?

 

With the US it's a bit confusing - the year the Civil War began no Republican owned a slave.
Lincoln's issue was with Southern and Northern Democrats. This is where the KKK and
segregation come from - Democrats and the American Left.
Today it seems as if the demonstrators are blaming the Right for American slavery.

As for statues in rivers. Where do you stop? Someone can have an issue with every statue
on earth - Columbus, Jefferson, Kennedy etc.. Maybe if you don't like gays you can pull down
any statue of Liberace? Martin Luther King was an abusive womanizer - can feminists pull his
statues down?

 

OK let's take this:

"All poverty has identifiable causes, and the higher incidence of poverty among blacks also has identifiable causes which must obviously include conditions related to being black."

There are many different causes of poverty, but what are the ones that are ONLY related to being black?

 

Discrimination based on

1. a person living in poverty - other than 'genteel' white poverty - ; such persons are likely to be shunned by the majority of comfortable citizens, including employers.

So we have a vicious circle: higher rates of poverty among blacks mean more incidences of race-based discrimination, including against blacks.

2. Inherent racism: it actually exists (even if unconsciously) in all humans

And in the US:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ception-norm-police-brutality-inherent-virtue

For black and minority ethnic people, the country has always been the America of an immune police force, white supremacy and a legal system that protects only those who can afford it. The Trump administration is simply suspending convention, ditching the pretence of pious protocol and ritual that has always been central to the survival of the “not in America” myth. This has always been America, what’s different is that it no longer feels the need to hide its true nature.

American exceptionalism is at its most robust when faced with the reality of its structures of racial oppression, the central challenge for which it was designed. In the founding years of the US, a belief in its inherent morality, godliness and superiority to its European origins had to be squared with its savage cruelty toward, and exploitation of, black slaves on an industrial scale.

 

Yet 'conservatives' and 'progressives' no doubt existed in the North.

Southerners owned slaves, regardless of political affiliation.

Nonsense. The KKK and segregation came from racist/white supremacy groups.

Nothing to do with the American Left.

Correct, because conservatives today regard entrenched black disadvantage as either non-existent (!), or
"just the way things are".

 

Isn't there this competition in America called "Please name a single Republican
who owned a slave at the onset of the American Civil War."
Yes, racist, supremacist groups - all Democrat in the early 1860's, and continued
with the Jim Crowe stuff till the 1960's.

 

When the Democrat party was the primary home of the most virulent racists in America, it was recognized as such. And in those days, these Democrats were the ones most comfortable throwing labels such as 'radical' against those Republicans which worked hardest to enact constitutional amendments to end the scourge of slavery and who tried to bring a semblance of equal protection of the laws for all of its people.

Today, however, it is the Republican party in the US which has become the stronghold of America's most virulent racists. To be sure, not all Republicans are racists -- there are some (I wouldn't say many anymore) who aren't racist at all. And, to be sure, there are still many racists in the Democratic party.

It doesn't matter in which party they hide: you can tell them apart by the positions they take. And the excuses they offer for those positions.

 

Ever heard the term "white privilege" and "white supremacy" ??
That's racist, and it comes mostly from the Democrats.
Democrats say you can't make racial jokes - but "red necks"
are fair game. That's racist.

 

Some corrections:

Republicans in 1860, 1861, etc., in the North did own slaves: the Blair family was just one of many.

The KKK and segregation came from conservatives not liberals.

 

The only thing that came close to answering my question was employer discrimination On what do you base this employer discrimination being race based for poor people?