Canada crushing the curve while US cases Soar

Trump and his Loyalists RATIONALE”

“Our daily cases significantly increased BECAUSE we’ve significantly increased testing”

YES and NO, and here’s the NO Rationale;

Highest daily cases prior to Covid19 spike; 39,104......Apr 24th
Total cumulative tests, Apr 24th; 4.96 million

Lowest daily cases prior to Covid19 spike; 19,036......Jun 8th
Total cumulative tests, June 8th; 20.6 million

Daily cases from Apr 24th - Jun 8th; DOWN approx. 20,000.

Same time period, testing significantly increased by approx. 15 million.

——————————-

Daily cases, Jul 03rd; 54,994

Total cumulative tests, Jul 03rd; 34.2 million

Daily cases from Jun 8th - Jul 8th; UP approx. 34 million

Same time period; Testing significantly increased by approx. 15 million

——————————-

Note; Two different time periods, same number of tests, however, from Apr 24th - Jun 8th, daily cases have significantly decreased, and from Jun 8th - Jul 3rd, daily cases have significantly increased.

 

In addition to the above, Trump and his loyalists are playing the same games as Mainland China;

Downplayed, downplayed, downplayed
Deny, deny, deny
And sweep the reality under the rug

 

Good post - useful info. Best explanation so far.

 

As opposed to the game the left is playing.....lie, lie, lie.

 

Demonstrate what are lies please because I cannot see any

 

I believe there is more to it as well, but climate controlled environments/lack of ventilation is undoubtedly a factor. I believe (based on valid research of effects of temperature and humidity on this and other viruses) that reduced humidity from AC is a factor as well. And yes, we have seen reductions in infection in northern areas as people started spending more time outdoors instead of in heated buildings.

I remember air quality was brought up when Italy was having their big surge. I suspect things like that make direct temp. and humidity comparisons between states or countries nearly impossible. Still, I bet if states with high temps and humidity shut off the AC and opened the windows infection rates would plummet. Of course deaths from heat exhaustion and stroke would commence...

 

One thing for sure is that if you lock down - you lock down. Requiring masks is not just requiring masks - in entails a whole lot of other social distancing factors - its either on or off for the most part.

As long as we continue to be locked down - even partially - the economic Tsunami grows bigger - and this has not hit yet - but we know it is coming - and it will kill many people.

 

Agree. The problem is a “real“ lockdown in the US would require quite a bit of lethal force. I don’t think it was ever a reasonable option. Certainly not in my “world”. Maybe closer to the coasts...

Yes it will kill many. But as long as political goals are met, nobody but a few like you and I will care.

 

Don't think lethal force is required - they did it in most other civilized nations - Do you think it is perhaps because folks here are too hard headed - like goats - not easily herded.

not sure that is the case here. I think you may be underestimating the magnitude of the Tsunami that is coming. Folks around you will be hit.
Soon the milk from the Gov't teat will peter out - and folks will have to live on their income - and for many this is not enough in any case.

Small business owners are getting crushed - debts piling up - credit card bills going unpaid.

Civil unrest will increase.

 

To be effective a shutdown would have to be complete. Very few in agriculture, especially animal agriculture, could do such a thing. Even if government provided money, and everyone was willing to suffer economically, a significant number would refuse to sacrifice their animals for a variety of reasons. Animal welfare, emotional attachment, lifelong investment in breeding programs/genetics, etc. There simply would have to be exceptions, and exceptions defeat the purpose. The supply chains on both sides of agriculture today are too long and complex, requiring a multitude of exceptions. Try it without those exceptions and a lot of force would have to be used. As much as some people like to think we are Europe 2.0, we aren’t—at least not across the whole US.

I think we agree. I wasn’t clear. Those effected will care. Elites and political classes making the rules and enforcing them won’t/don’t care. They won’t have a problem quelling certain types of civil unrest that can’t be used for political leverage.

 

Completely ridiculous argument.

Any head of government with a modicum of leadership is capable of convincing the poeple of the merits of public health measures, especially during a pandemic.

It's in times of crisis that we recognize great leaders.

This was an opportunity for Trump to show that he could rise above partisan politics.

He was unable to do so.

He will have to pay a political cost.

 

I will semi agree with you, political leaders are typically capable of rising above the political fray and being able to meet the occasion. However, none of that argues against what I said, in fact it firmly establishes it.

Because of the way Trump was treated, combined with Trump's combative instincts has led to this outcome. On one side, you couldn't extend an olive branch on even the smallest of things. We couldn't even get an infrastructure bill done, which was a major contention point of both the Trump/Sanders camps in 2016.

Or put it another way: Both the far right and the far left agreed that our infrastructure needed work. But because of the Speaker, it didn't get done in 2016-2020. Russiagate also created incredible distrust in the American People, and in its government and the consequences of that are being felt right now.

This is worse than how the Republicans responded to Obama, and the Republican response to Obama in part, secured 8 years for the Democratic incumbent.

What you in the resistance need to understand, is that nihilistic policies lead to nihilist results. Opposing Trump on everything felt good, calling him a racist, xenophobe, etc felt good but the consequences were far reaching and are being felt during a pandemic.

It was incumbent on the federal government to simmer down those tensions with the President in order to get things done. Trump offered paid family leave(in his first SOTU address), what has Pelosi offered in these last 2 years?

We are all paying for the resistance, in the west wing and in Congress. Nihilism is not and once again proved it cannot be a mode of government.

 

Only the most fanatical trumpsters can believe Trump is a victim.

A President who insults people on Twitter on a daily basis is basically unfit to lead a nation like the US.

And this lack of character is all the more destructive in times of great crisis such as the one we are currently experiencing.

The President who currently has your support has claimed for years that Obama was born in Kenya...

 

Why can't the U.S. get control of the virus? In a nutshell ...

 

Not sure what you mean by complete . The Lockdowns in other nations still allowed people to go out and obtain essentials - and farmers were not really affected that much as they are already socially isolated - there is no need to sacrifice animals ?

 

I don’t know much about supply lines etc. in Europe. I do know a bit about how it works here. My state did not shut down, was one of the few that didn’t. Yet I have had a tractor in the shop for almost four months now. A combination of parts and labor availability.

Most of the cases of C19 in my area are linked to meat packing facilities. They couldn’t be shuttered because animals don’t stop growing just because plants close. Once slaughter weights are exceeded the animals are too large for plant equipment to handle and will have to be euthanized. Also, slaughter age restrictions on ruminants that resulted from “mad cow” enter the equation at some point. Never mind consumers would balk at buying cuts of meat out of their desired size specification. Cow/calf operations would fare best, but availability of vaccines, antibiotics, veterinary supplies, transportation, feed supplements, etc. would quickly dry up leading to serious herd health concerns.

Fuel, parts, fertilizer, feed, consumable equipment and supplies must continue to flow to the farm. A few weeks shut down would be survivable but decrease efficiency drastically. Because almost every business here supports agriculture they are almost all essential. So you either have a real shutdown resulting in disaster or a fake one that’s ineffective. And a real one would be met with great resistance.

 

We had some issues with these facilities as well - but they were contained within these establishments - and now the workers and surrounding small circle are immune. We can contain small outbreaks in old folks homes and facilities like these rather easily - lock down a certain region.

 

I agree. It didn’t take long to get things under control here either. I would say I don’t know why packers weren’t more proactive from the beginning but I know why. They aren’t particularly concerned with their employees’ well being in the best of time. They aren’t going to cut into profit margins unless forced to. Just as an aside, employees at packers here often work another job as well, usually day farm labor. That makes containment more difficult.

My overall point is that there is too much interconnectedness between all businesses in predominantly ag areas for a shutdown that’s effective in disease prevention to work.

 

But - these businesses are going to be OK - Pandemic or no pandemic we still need to eat.
It is the millions of other businesses that are taking a massive hit right now due to the lockdown. Spending in entire sectors has been curtailed severely. How do you think the gazillions of hotel workers are doing at the moment - and what of the hotels who rely on conventions - and all the associated staff.

Shale oil has been crushed - Every accountant is trying to figure out how they can save a penny by having people work from home - the commercial property market is going to get hit. And we can go on and on ..

If you have one of these events happen - you can withstand it - but all at the same time is a different kind of monster.

So back to the main line - When we lockdown - we need to be stringent about it and everyone has to play along - until we are no longer concerned about hospitals being overloaded - which is the main concern.

Other nations seem to have conquered this beast - We have not.

 

Everything I produce is worth far less than cost of production. Just because people need to eat doesn’t mean the entire ag economy isn’t in dire straights.

Oh, I agree. Most of us are in the same boat. If it gets too bad I can fold up operations and become a self sufficient “homesteader”. At least I have that option. I know most people don’t and I feel for them.

I’m not sure I know what multiple events you are referring to.

You don’t advocate for nationwide lockdown do you? Why lock down places that will never test healthcare limits?

 

All of the economic events - such as those listed - happening at the same time. Those that will make up the Tsunami that is to come - and the longer we are in lockdown mode - the bigger that Tsunami will be.

I say that initially you need to lock down hard - like in other nations - people have to follow the rules. Once the curve is flat however - you do not want to open up in half measures over a prolonged period of time - as this increases the economic damage - to a point where the deaths from this will exceed those from covid -

Yes people should continue to take precautions such as hand washing and so on - but we need to get things up and running. When outbreaks occur and lockdown notice comes because there is an uncontained outbreak happening in a certain location - folks in that area need to follow it - contain the thing - and then get back to normal quickly.

We have to realize that we can never completely contain this virus and its mutant strains the question is how fast its works its way through the populace.

 

Ok. I understand. All the things like hotels, shale oil, etc. together have a compounding effect leading to exponential destruction of the economy. I agree with you on that point. It flabbergasts me how some people think just handing out cash will fix all that disruption in a physical economy.

I guess I have a hard time mandating everyone lock down hard. My state never did, never adopted much mask wearing, and squashed the curve. Never came anywhere near testing the limits of healthcare facilities. I’m still a fan of letting states do their own thing.

That makes more sense than what most shut down advocates are peddling.

Absolutely. I believe the faster we get young healthy people through it the better it will be for everyone. Medically and economically.

 

And the reality is that young people are not much affected by this virus - and not until you get to the very elderly is this thing really lethal - sans a rare individual here and there.

 

Yeh, but try convincing people of that. It’s a Herculean task.

 

Americans are rebellious at their roots. We tend to put personal freedom above all else. Whether it's attending a Trump rally or an anti Trump protest we are cut from the same cloth and say screw covid I'm getting on with life. Other countries just don't have that spirit.
I'm a good example and although in the high risk old people group I'm leaving tomorrow for a vacation of travel and hiking and biking trails with other people on them. I refuse to shelter in place or as I put it cower in fear. I'll live free and if it happens die free.