Man injured after officer involved shooting in Kenosha

Because he was not violating the law, he didn't raise the weapon at officers, and it totally looked to me like he was putting the gun down in the video shared by the OP. I said based on what I read. Now, if the cop felt threatened, well who am I to argue with feelings. But then again, we don't police based on feelings, but on procedures and rule of law. So in the balance of things, I think if they had given it a few seconds, he would have put the gun down. True, I'm not betting my life on that, but I also didn't sign up to be a cop and last I checked, no one forced anyone to be a cop, so choices are choices.

 

If's proof they believed he had a knife and were yelling at him to drop it. The witness confirmed they were yelling at him to drop a knife.

"White said he saw a female officer fire the Taser at Blake. White said he then started to record the incident, some of which is obscured by the vehicle. It is unclear what exactly transpired before the video starts.

"They were also yelling 'drop the knife,'" White said. "I didn’t see any weapons in his hands. He wasn’t being violent.""
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-police-kenosha-wis-shooting-black-man-back-n1237819

 

To save him a little time, he's basing it on the cops yelling at Blake to drop the knife. I agree that until we have the knife in evidence and shown, we don't have conclusive proof he was carrying a knife. He could have been, or he could have been carrying something that looked like a knife.

 

Not following their lawful orders and resisting arrest is violating the law GEEEEZZZ. What gun is he putting down? He didn't have the gun.......yet. How could he put it down?

 

"They were also yelling 'drop the knife,'" White said.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/video-shows-police-kenosha-wis-shooting-black-man-back-n1237819

 

You can't be wrong and kill someone and have it be OK, you realize that, right? Like if you knock on my door at 2 am and I shoot you through it, Colorado's make my day law doesn't protect me because I "believed" you were an intruder. Cops do not get to do their job to a higher standard, so if it turns out he didn't have a knife, then what will you say? I mean, why stop a man whose looking to remove children from a domestic assault in the first place? Why not ask him hey, can I get your name and number and follow up with you once you get these children safe? How about an officer follows you to ensure you and the children are safe and then we talk about what happened and why we were called?

Again, if he had a knife, then that's one step closer for sure to making him a threat. But if he didn't and they made a mistake, well then they made a mistake and perhaps mistakenly applied too much force. Can you not concede that possibility until we have more evidence?

 

Right but I am asking you if, in your opinion, an officer should be allowed to shoot a violent felon for reaching...

You made it seem like that is an absurd law to be on the books.

If not, I misunderstood.

 

You’re misrepresenting my posts to make your argument.

 

Uh, the article and the video shows the gun in his left hand, man. More over, it's clear he puts his hands up, as one would likely when being ordered to by a police officer to do so, and then realizes he answered with his gun, he goes to his knees and appears to be putting the gun down or already drops it inside the door way when the officer BEHIND him shoots him.

And you said the most important word. Lawful orders. Not all orders given by the police compel lawful compliance.

Resisting arrest in Arizona is at best a class 6 felony. That's a pretty low felony and is more often a misdemeanor. In this case, the compliant was over loud video gaming. Not a situation that indicates a major threat from the get go.

 

There are lots of justified uses of force wherein the recipient of that force turns out to not have been armed. Here is a recent example of exactly that, from earlier this year:

Source: https://apnews.com/0f361dc8bd4e0e2080697bea2f08e254

 

Not just no, but hell no!

This time it looks to be justified and common sense.

On Waco and ruby ridge, those murders were not justified. These feds were like damned Nazis IMO.. And should have went to prison for murder..

Turned out the shotgun shortened by weaver was legal . Not illegal..But even if illegal killing his son and wife was over reaction..

Koresh was a POS and the head of.a.religious cult but the impatience of the FBI and ignoring the negotiator insured those deaths.

I have run into cops unsuitable to be cops. But also had interactions that revealed good cops. You tend to forget about.the good ones but never forget the bad ones.

Given the dangerous jobs cops have they should earn big wages which would bring higher quality people into law enforcement.. And like SEALS are always training. Which would cost more money. But worth it given the people killed by bad cops and insufficient training. What's a life worth?

 

Yeah that may be what a federal judge says, and I will grant they know the law as it's written better, but we, as in we the people aka the government, shouldn't kill people by mistake. And if we do, we should be penalized for making mistakes. I am at my job and they don't even involve people getting shot. So while the force may not have resulted in murder charges, this officer should have been fired for such a grievous mistake.

 

Randy Weaver broke the law. I mean, the guns may not have been illegal at the end of the day though that's only disputed by Randy Weaver, but the FBI had probably cause to arrest him based on what they BELIEVED. They made the arrest in good faith. He then failed to show, so they went after him for that CRIME, and he resisted. They BELIEVED he was well armed and a threat. Randy Weaver was found guilty for skipping his court date, not something a law abiding citizen typically does. While the other charges he wasn't found guilty on, OJ Simpson wasn't found guilty either, does that mean he didn't do what he was accused of?

David Koresh also broke the law. He was accused of child abuse and sexual assault. Should we have just let him go? If George Floyd were being arrested for sexual assault and child abuse instead of allegedly passing a fake 20 would you have said let him go?

You agree with the ideals of these two men, thus you violate your alleged ideal that law enforcement is always right? Help me understand...

 

I agree with Koresh, but in Randy Weaver's case I believe he missed the court date because the court sent him a letter with the wrong date on it. The Prosecutor knew this but sent the US Marshals after him anyway.

 

~ Only once ...❔ ´

 

Maybe that's true, but when they show up at your cabin and are there to arrest you, do you not go with them? I mean, let's say the lawyer screwed up. When Randy Weaver encountered the US marshall's at the "Y" on his property, he could have surrendered right then and there, right? He could have thrown down his weapon, demanded everyone with him do the same, and got down on the ground. Do you not think the outcome would have been different?

Instead, he did what HE felt was right. So how do we know that didn't happen here? I mean, if someone pushes past you with a knife, but doesn't stab you, do you presume they are out to kill you?

You do see my whole point, right? Ruby Ridge was a cluster, but Randy Weaver could have complied. He had an opportunity to do it and chose not to. He resisted because he thought he was right. And then, even after the initial violence, he CONTINUED to resist and hold out. The main difference here is we have 20/20 hind sight, and Randy Weaver is white. Am I missing any other differences? I mean, I don't deny law enforcement screwed up, but we can't deny Randy Weaver didn't have the power to save the lives of his family members.

 

Question is could the cult have been dealt with without it ending as it did? Given the facts revealed by the FBI negotiator? The answer is yes.

On weaver the killing of his wife and son by a sniper....could this have gone differently if not for the attitude of the FBI? I think so.

If the gun in question it was not illegal then the fact he was charged with that crime is some sketchy stuff. I read from a reliable source it was legal for he never intended to break firearm law and didn't. He thought he was being railroaded and he may have been..


Yet I am not defending either weaver or koresh..While you seem to be defending the feds in their actions. Just as you may defend bad cops that don't have to kill but do it anyways. That is our difference IMO.

Going by the book written by the FBI negotiator Waco would have ended differently if not for the arrogance of authority.

Same for Ruby Ridge. Hell weaver could have been negotiated with as his family was starved out. These were all citizens instead of the maps or Nazis. Yet they were treated as great enemies when more time.and patience could have save lives especially in Waco.

Policing citizens should be different than going to war with an enemy who attacked America to conquer us. Whenever possible.

 

I just saw the video....that cop is a yellow-bellied , incompetent, blood thirsty, ignorant, UNTRAINED, COWARDLY POS ! The End

I hope he looses his job, and everything he owns and spends the rest of his life in prison with some of those he sent there...the ones he didn't MURDER first.


Got an opposing view? I do NOT care....you would be wrong...

 

After everything said in this thread, let me say this...

The whole thing was a mess. Awful training. Closing the distance then grabbing a guys shirt and one hand firing a pistol into his back is incredibly stupid and dangerous for everyone involved. Regardless of the events, that officer is getting fired. I mean, its about as bad as I've seen.

His backup officer had his gun drawn (and I think a third officer was also present), so the officer SHOULD HAVE laid hands on him, with his gun secure, before the dude ever reached the car door. Had he thrown that officer off, then your argument to prevent a fleeing felon is much stronger.

The officer messed up badly. At the very least he'll be fired, if not charged, and given that he shot SEVEN times from point blank range, he's probably looking at some form of homicide, and it's not hard to imagine the charge will stick given how stupid he was during this whole encounter.

The shoot appeared justified. The manner was absolutely not, and he will probably pay for it.

 

Never mind you guys have diverted to something entirely different than what is being discussed here. I'm talking about THIS shooting, the OP shooting.

 

Im not being partisan here, just saying that I think lethal force should be used as a last resort and I think non-lethal force should almost always be tried first. What happened to good old arse whooping? One of the cops could have kicked the door when this fella was half-way into his car - sudden motion disorients for a second and gives you an opportunity to grab him. You can also apply body weight to the door and pin him there. Use a taser. I didn’t see any of that in the video.

 

LoL, and just sit and wait as he opened the door and reached into his vehicle? Are you serious? Do you realize there is more than one incident identical to this where the police didn't shoot the suspect when he reached into his car and ended up dead for their carelessness/kindness?

Here is the incident. Unbelievably open and shut case of justified shooting.
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=64cq_1598238241

Here is that EXACT same incident where the cop chose not to shoot the suspect as he reached into his truck and the suspect ends up murdering the cop. Warning, you will hear the dying screams of the cop.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...Police-officer-shot-dead-Vietnam-veteran.html

This was suicide by cop. The suspect played a stupid game and won a stupid prize.

 

You don't arse whoop someone holding a knife who was just unfazed by a TASER reaching into their car to get a gun.

I haven't read you say one thing about, you should not resist arrest and act like you are getting a gun, that should be your last resort when you are being arrested.

 

Oh, I think resisting arrest is stupid.
My argument is that, sadly, parents don’t teach their kids common sense these days, as every snowflake is entitled to their version of reality. That quite often turns into a tragedy, which might be a good reason to revisit the policy. I’m not advocating reductions to cops, I’m advocating returning the batons to cops. I can tell you, I’d much rather be hit on my head with a baton a couple of times than be shot. After such experience everyone will walk away rethinking their actions and will live to tell the story.

 

Actually, that’s the way it’s done in many countries with strict gun control - you do something stupid in front of a cop and you can earn a beating.
When I was a teenager one of my friends told me a story. This was in Ukraine, by the way. So, he said he and his buds were caught with some drugs. They attempted to run, cops caught them, took away the drugs and whooped their arses right there. Sounds cruel, but all of them walked away with no permanent damage to their health and with clean criminal record. I think that it’s actually a better alternative than jail with criminal record or being shot by a cop.