HALF OF Americans Live In Fear Of Medical Bankruptcy

Half of Americans are poor and half live in fear of medical bankruptcy. One of the leading causes of bankruptcy is medical debt. No one in the rest of the developed world has this problem:

"The United States spends far more on healthcare than other high-income countries. Yet the U.S. population has poorer health than other countries."

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

New study says 'Medicare for All' will save the US money with lower healthcare costs

 

It's true.
My oldest son has a good job with decent health insurance. He had a cancer on his kidney. He's fine now by the way.
But as the dust settles it looks like he may still be on the hook for $120K.
He bought a new car, refinanced and put some more money in his house and now he is ready to say come get it.

 

The biggest hinderance to health care in the U.S. is the government. Get out of the way and we Americans will fix it. Why you think/want government to fix it is insane.

 

My reflexive reply is leave education and health solely in corporate/market hands at your peril! Far too easy for a culture of exploitation to slip in

 

Nope. The biggest problem with healthcare in the US is that so much of it is run by a private, profit making bureacracy that leads America to spend double what most modern industrial societies spend for healthcare that is marginally better in some areas, the same in others and worse in yet more.

That doesn't mean the private sector should have no role, but it shouldn't be the primary driver of price. That is insanity tha tcan only be justified by resort to mindless repetition of ideolgy. There are simply too many examples of how properly structured government intervention in healthcare produces better outcomes society wide for any informed person to dispute that it is beneficial.

I don't support Sanders' proposal in its totality, but all Americans should have access to affordable healthcare regardless of their job or how much money they have. No one should fear bankruptcy because they are sick.

 

What do you believe the government is doing to hold healthcare from improving and becoming more cost affordable? Not insurance — healthcare.
You realize that most of the laws that could be attributed to this somewhat was lobbied by the same people you are arguing will do what’s best for us if we just let them do whatever they want, yes?

 

Deleted ...

 

Excellent Post ... A phrase somewhat less kind than the one you used would be "System of Healthcare Extortion"

A link relevant to US- HC costs - vs UHC costs
The Conservative Case For Universal Healthcare

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-conservative-case-for-universal-healthcare/

We spent 3.5 Trillion dollars on HC in 2017. Total Federal Revenue for the year was 3.6 Trillion - Just to add a little color and perspective to that ridiculously absurd number.

Let me tell you another number that ridiculously absurd - 1.75 Trillion - or half what we spent. This is what other first world nations spend on UHC - .. service/standard of care in the US is middle of the pack.

As a Fiscal Conservative - is it just me or is something wrong with this picture.

"YOU Mean Sir - We could have healthcare for all ... just as good as we have now - for 1/2 the cost ? "

YES Johnny ... thats what I mean Both the private and Gov't costs drop by half overnight .. if say we were to adopt one of the better European systems .. swap straight across the board .. wake up in the morning and you have the same system as "Sweden, Norway, France, Germany" - Places where folks are not dying in the streets due to lack of healthcare.

but hold on.... These other systems are horribly bloated inefficient Gov't Bureaucracies ... We should be able to do far better .. get the cost to under 1 Trillion if we were serious about this issue ... free up an extra 2.5 Trillion next year for what ever we want to spend it on ...

Sound good ?

 

I disagree .. See post 8 por favor - and then come again with what you think is insane ?

 

I have a different reflex on HC - havn't really thought much about the Education but is an interesting question. See post 8 por favor -

 

Medicare for all will cost 35 trillion dollars. How do you propose switching from private premiums and imposing a tax to afford this? How do you propose to get this passed in Congress? Will the US remain the leader of medical innovation? Are you sure that a sudden transition in trillions of dollars of the economy won't be very bumpy?

I have a better proposal. Unite all the existing government healthcare programs into one public healthcare program. That means roll up Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, and allow VA members to opt in. Reduce regulations on private insurance since we people can depend on public insurance more now. Don't allow illegals to use this program. Expand subsidies so that this is more affordable to the middle class. Allow this plan to cover drugs and treatments in other countries. Offer a bronze that is free for many/cheaper that saves a lot of money with a modest reduction in expensive coverage. Offer a silver plan for an average level of coverage. Offer a gold plan for the best money can buy. Allow people to save money on premiums to this plan with a health test of weight, blood pressure, and step counting. Pay for this plan with taxes on junk food and a flat payroll tax increase.

Start educating kids in basic healthcare. This includes educating kids on nutrition and healthy eating and make school lunches healthy and actually delicious. Educate them on how to properly exercise and make PE tougher and mandatory. Educate them on proper dental care, yearly checkups, cancer screenings,vaccines, wearing sunscreen, proper ergonomics, taking care of your back on another health topics. The best healthcare is a good lifestyle.

 

Not if we do as is recommended in Post 8.

 

There is no organization that claims we can get universal healthcare for just 17.5 trillion. There is no estimate for that number, not even estimated from liberal organizations. This is because you remove 17.5 trillion dollars in extra costs overnight or convince the healthcare industry to suddenly cut their prices in half. There are also a couple dozen systemic and lifestyle related reasons our care is so expensive and won't all be fixed in a single bill.

We are spending too much for a large number of reasons and even if we did get Medicare for all passed, its certain to be a compromise, and in my opinion politically impossible. Even if you did get it passed, it would be a bare-boned Medicare for all that we improve and cut costs in later bills. Also, people may not even want to make the cuts and sacrifices necessary to cut our healthcare cost in half. They may have to put up with less options, longer wait times, less healthcare research. To save money in healthcare you have to sacrifice something.

The reforms I recommended reform all the government programs in a very cost efficient single program and expands it. I also propose good lifestyle and preventative care that is certain to cut costs big time. We can save trillions with very little sacrifice. This can be expanded upon in later bills to cover everyone and get the cost of healthcare down.

 

Living "in fear" is a mental/perceptual issue. The bloated, bankrupt USPS is a good example of what happens when the US government decides to guarantee equal access to a service for all. We would have to have free college education from cradle to grave before we could even equitably argue that healthcare should be free. Medical staffs sink a fortune into their education. Until we bring down the cost of becoming a doctor/nurse/lab tech etc. we are not going to make a dent in bringing down the cost of healthcare. America is a pay to play country.

 

I don't fear Aetna, or the monthly premium, I don't fear medical bankruptcy.

I fear that M4A taxes will be double or triple what I'm currently paying.

 

No I dont believe that's your fear. It's not supported by the evidence as I have shown here.

 

I've done the rough math. I'd get clobbered if I lose my employer sponsored coverage.

 

There is nothing more exploitative than the government. A private business can't make you shop with them, the government does. The same people you fear in business, own your politicians. Without government help, you can't MAKE me do anything. I haven't worn a mask one single time since the mass hysteria began because our Sheriff refused to enforce it. The businesses gave up, because they didn't want to lose business. Now look at places with legal penalties for the mask. They are beating people up, arresting them, or fining them for refusing to wear a mask, that RIGHT ON THE PACKAGING, says it does not prevent corona or any other virus. Check the FDA, mask does not stop any virus. Check the literature from prior to this year, the mask does nothing and might not even be useful in surgery. Yet you have low IQ city employees trying to enforce a medical policy they don't even understand. This is what government solutions look like. They are one size fits all, often don't demonstrate a true understanding of the problem, and are generally just token solutions to make the idiot public feel better. Consider that you can not take 5oz of shampoo onto an airplane. Was there a rash of planes being downed by excessive shampoo? no. It is just a stupid token solution so the proles will feel like something is being done to keep them safe.
These are the people you want in charge of your education and health care.

 

related thread:
What happens to those who don't pay their medical bills: jail

 

None of this is as simple as people would like to pretend it is. For example, if you run a private clinic, and you see medicare patients, they are subsidized by your private insurance patients. Medicare doesn't pay enough to keep the lights on if you only see medicare patients. This means medicare rates will have to go way up, so any projection using today's pricing is wrong right out of the gate.

Private insurance has inflated the cost of care. That did happen. This was after market intervention where the government pushed your employer to get involved in your health care for some reason. When you make people buy a product, the price goes up. The insurance companies then over pay for certain services, which inflates their value and influences how you will be treated and which interventions will be given priority. All of this is backwards and wrong. However, adding even MORE intervention to undo the negative effects of your previous intervention is also backwards. Realistically, you should have catastrophic insurance for a car accident or cancer or something, and for everything else you should pay out of pocket. If no one could pay 6k for an MRI, an MRI would not cost 6k. Those machines get paid for in the first year or 2.

 

Nor is it near as complex - sans the political will - and there is the rub.

The math and logic are clear - 3.5 Trillion was the Total HC spend in 2017. To add color and perspective - the "Entire" Federal Revenue for 2017 was 3.6 Trillion

Clearly something is broken - just on that figure. but Wait !! - we then find out that we can get the same quality of care for 1/2 the cost.

Thats 1.75 Trillion on the table - Per Year !

 

And this says what to you? The numbers are similar, so.....?

You didn't find that out though, because it is not true. People with little or no first hand knowledge of medicine just assert that. Do you not understand the sentence in my previous post about private insurance subsiding Medicare patients? Without that subsidy, the medicare payments will have to increase substantially, or there likely won't be doctors in your town.

The 3 biggest money losses in medicine are compliance costs, prescription drugs, and medical devices. The problem isn't that your doctor is free from being coerced into accepting medicare.

You should also consider that other countries subsidize their public health option through either maintaining a trade surplus, or selling a natural resource on the global market like oil. The money has to come from somewhere. Just give everything away for free may sound like a good solution, but it is not realistic.

 

The entire Federal Revenue is a big number - That we spend as much as that number on Health Care - is absurd... especially given we can have that care - at half the cost.

The rest of your post is preposterous self aggrandizing Ad Hom nonsense .. but I will address it.

1) I have far more ability to assess the numbers than you - Lets get that straight - right out of the gate - if you wish a erectile function measuring contest ... but even if you are 25% of my level - you would understand that the Math is Math - and the people doing the quality assessments "ARE" Medical Experts. So I not need be.

How many Journal articles and conference papers have you authored - Just Curious ?

2) The US is "Middle of the Pack" in terms of care - by various metrics that folks who do these studies for a living - all over the world do.

Those are the facts .. and I gave you the math.

Now that your erroneous assertion has been corrected - the floor is yours. Do feel free to ask for a reference for 2 -but it takes 2 seconds on Google to find a plethora of material...

 

Yes, its a real problem. Do you have an idea of how to address this problem that doesn't require my involvement, financial or otherwise, if I choose to be responsible for the cost of my own (and only my own) care?

 

Why?

Would you provide links to some of those examples?