HALF OF Americans Live In Fear Of Medical Bankruptcy

How do you know? What is the Federal government actually responsible for per the constitution? Maybe it is a reasonable number. Maybe they are both too high. Maybe they are both too low. What are you basing your opinion on exactly?

I am sorry if you read it that way. I don't see the need for an ad hom, nor the need to "aggrandize" myself to a bunch of anonymous strangers. Maybe relax a little.

How do you know that? You even go on to state:"...ARE Medical Experts. So I not need be"
So it sounds like you don't know more than me. It sounds like an appeal to someone else's authority, the basis of which you may or may not understand.
This also means me stating you have no first hand experience, was a correct assessment, not an ad hom.

Would it matter? If I say a number, you will then want me to post evidence, which I am not doing on a public forum. I wouldn't expect you to be able to tell the difference between a real paper ready for publication and junk science anyway (since you are a layman by your own admission), so what am I proving to you exactly, and why? Do you even know what PRISMA is or anything at all about medical literature?

The problem isn't the maths, it is the confounding variables. I am surprised you got that confused since you are 4 times better than me at this.

So what metrics, in your professional estimation, are the most important in determining the quality of care?

 

So, we just let the corporate market medical people continue in the same direction. Medicare for all won't solve a thing. The cost is because of corruption by government. It's the same with education. Because the government subsidizes the cost skyrockets.

 

Nice thought. But, how? Medicare for all won't help. People won't be able to get medical care soon enough to save them. A lot more people will die. Millions upon millions. But, that's why the left wants medicare for all. It's the same people demanding population control that cry for medicare for all.

 

And, who is supposed to do this for poor inner city black and hispanic youth? Just wave a magic wand and everyone will do exactly what they are supposed to do. The 10 Commandments if kept by all would eliminate all problems in the world. Yet, only a small fraction actually keep the commandments. In the U.S. that number is steadily decreasing. So, why do you think Marxist-Leninists would be able to get all to do this? How?

 

Low-income people already have Medicaid and access to public healthcare. What democrats are proposing is expanding public healthcare and affordable healthcare to working class people.

 

The government is a bit of a blunt instrument, but something they can do is set a standard i.e make laws. I can only speak to where it has worked, in Australia it's a private/public partnership. The government sets the rebate fee for certain services but the private sector does have the right to charge more.

It's not really a government service, but that's too complicated to explain here.

if you're into kind of anecdotal opinion it's fine but you should check out some of the anecdotal accounts in Korea of a whole bunch of people getting infected in a Starbucks by covid within 2 hours all except the employees wearing masks.

 

Overall costs seem down in other western countries that have some kind of Medicare. But, agreed we don't know if that would happen in the US. You seem to have more sick people and a bit more of a culture of taking lots of medications, but confess I don't have the statistics on hand

 

Which is why I don't like their interventions in my life. When you need a one size fits all solution, everything must be made to accommodate the slowest, weakest, and dumbest people. I don't want to live being held to the standard of stupid people that can't take care of themselves. If you need help, fine. But don't try to mandate that I also have to participate.

The plural of anecdote is not evidence. Ever heard that saying? A lot of things seem anecdotally true, but that isn't how science or medicine work. The FDA evaluates medical devices and claims of their efficacy. The FDA does not approve the statement that a mask can prevent a virus, because every study prior to this year shows that the mask does not help.
There is a photo of a guy blowing vape steam out while wearing a mask. The vape steam pours out of the mask and into the air around you. That is the moisture in your breath. That is where a virus lives, not exclusively in your visible spittle. It settles on your hands, on your clothes, on your face etc. When you breath in, you inhale my discarded breath in an enclosed space. The mask is not a self contained breathing apparatus. It is not airtight. The packaging explicitly states that it does not stop corona.

I am curious. There was a TB outbreak last year that killed 1.5 million people. Did you wear a mask for that?

 

Unfortunately, that's how it works. Even though the seat belt that you wear will only save your life you have to do it.

Unfortunately I don't have time to check out FDA thinking, but wouldn't the CDC be more appropriate?

I'm new here but given this fairly extreme vuew I'm absolutely sure you guys have gunned each other to death about this issue

 

The biggest hinderance to affordable health care in America is political corruption with politicians being financed by the health care and drug and medical device companies. Many of our politicians in both parties get campaign financing and other financial perks, or when they leave office go to work for one of them at high salary as my former congressman did.

 

That's only "how it works" because people like you passively accept it. We supposedly have self determination in the west right? Then why do you get to decide for me how my money is spent or what kind of health care I have?

No, not for the efficacy of a medical device. The CDC does not typically run their own clinical trails to test medical claims.

.
I haven't posted here in over a year before today. My view is only extreme if you think requiring evidence to back claims is extreme.

 

Drug companies also buy extensive ad buys with major news networks, so don't expect things detrimental to the industry to end up on the news.

 

I will take your word dude - on your Papers/ Journal Articles. - in the field of related science - as this has nothing to do with medicine school and everything to do with accounting - economics - and so on... general understanding of "somewhat" higher level math would help and very good if you have some statistics behind you.

Pulling off my belt - as you eye the zipper - You were the one that wandered in here all "I am this and that"

So I have numerous papers .. and more than one journal article - in science - so I don't care about your medical background - I am well qualified to speak on the topic - we are not talking about a heart transplant... Ad hom up the yang -- right of the start. Did you not take any logic classes in your undergrad ? .. Philosophy ? No ... .. Yeah .. Ok.

I started out not with boasting - other than in response to your self aggrandization as an opening act - but that was after. I started out with numbers .. and facts.. none of which you have refuted..

1) 3.5 Trillion is double what other first world nations pay
2) if you want to claim that we are some shining start to justify that extra 1.75 Trillion per year - have at it.

So far - you have produced nothing in support of your claim - other than your appeal to your grand credentials - and that is not impressive in any discipline .

The floor is yours.

 

Then why did you ask me about it? If it is ultimately meaningless, what was your point? Was this just a failed attempted at gaining the intellectual high ground?

Did I though, or did you just assume that because I accurately called out that you have no first hand experience?
Also, this is the second seemingly homosexual innuendo you have posted to me. You have something you need to get off of your chest? I fully support your lifestyle choices or whatever, just mop it up a bit and stop referencing your genitals and your zipper and such. Not into it. Seems rather juvenile.

Bravo, then you know that having something published does not mean that it is true or that you are a brilliant person. Every graduate student can do it. Also do you know what PRISMA is or not? You notice how you don't actually answer any of my direct questions? Is there a reason for that?

Yeah, what relevance could that have in a discussion about medicine? You've published a paper in a social science or whatever, so you are the arbiter of truth for medicine now. I gotcha.

We are talking about the day to day practice of medicine and running a clinic. What qualifies you to speak about it? You want to pull this ridiculous credentialism, then fine let's go down this road. What are the average expenses like for a small personally owned clinic? What does medicare pay in reimbursement for a office visit? What is the average private insurance payment? How could the private insurance payment be used to subsidize the medicare patients? How many employees will you need just for compliance? How much does EMR compliance cost? Are you offering a competitive benefits package, or are your people on their own? What does the upkeep on your license and malpractice run you? Who is going to be paying for all of this under medicare? Let's hear your expert opinions.

I did. My favorite was Karl Popper. Do you get why that is relevant, or should I explain it to you?

Soooooo.....you DID start out with boasting then? How's that working out for you? Did it work? Am I sufficiently impressed?

Is that adjusted for PPP or gross? How much of the 3.5 trillion is fraud, waste, and abuse, directly attributable to medicare and medicaid? For that matter, how much of the 3.5 trillion is just medicare working as intended? As enrollment goes up, so does the cost obviously. How much is attributable to elective surgeries? What is the 3rd party payer effect? Have you ever personally had government provided health care? What types of confounding variables might be driving costs up, outside of how much your doctor gets paid?

I already mentioned that a lot of your wasted money goes to drugs and medical devices. Malpractice insurance is not cheap. Med school is not cheap. Keeping a clinic open and in compliance with all relevant laws is not cheap. Having a competent staff, is not cheap. People picture doctors just rolling around in money, but if you are in primary care, that is not the case. Your cardiologist or your anesthesiologist maybe, but not your primary care.

I haven't made a single appeal to my credentials actually. You keep bringing it up because you seem to prefer arguing against me as a person, rather than arguing against my ideas. I have experience running a clinic, it is not about my credentials. This is clearly a sore spot for you. All of these snarky comments later, you still haven't demonstrated competence or relevant experience in anything. I still don't think you understood the comment about private insurance subsidizing medicaid, and so you don't understand why the payments would have to go up, meaning any calculations you made based off of today's rate of compensation is wrong. Medicare expenditures are already more than private insurers nationwide, but compensation is so much lower.

https://www.healthcaredive.com/news...-physicians-hospitals-far-more-than-m/445949/

The solvency of the Medicare Hospital Insurance trust fund, out of which Part A benefits are paid, is a common way of measuring Medicare’s financial status. In 2014, the Medicare Trustees projected that the Part A trust fund will be depleted in 2030
https://www.kff.org/report-section/...at-are-medicares-future-financing-challenges/

 

You pay a 4% tax if you make $29,000 a year or more. It replaces the private tax to the insurance companies. A family now paying $4,775 a year would pay $1,240 a year under Medicare for All.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/

 

Spare me .your lack of understanding of basic science and comparative analysis.

CBO reports show private insurers pay physicians, hospitals far more than Medicare

So - what is your point ? This does not change anything I have stated... you have not addresses the central points I brought up.

So I shall repeat

1) 3.5 Trillion
2) Double what other first world nations pay - and this is not all attributable to private insurers paying more than medicare - and in fact barely even in part as some Euro systems have private alongside public. Where is your accounting for the rest .. where is your accounting at all ?

Big Buzz for you on that one... sorry Mr. Doctor Expert ... you are off to a horrific start.

and for the trifle amount that we could concede might be accounted for in this... Not my problem if Doctors make less - but I think Doctors in Sweden are not suffering too much .. and certainly some of my Canadian Friends are not suffering.

but this is dwelling on something that 1) you have not remotely established - never mind quantified.

Big Bad Swing --- . Strike one.

You wish to try again ? Justify your claim - that 1) privately paid doctors in the US are higher paid than privately paid doctors in the EU 2) give an estimate of the contribution to the total pot. 3) If you happen to manage 1 and 2 .. tell me why I should care if Doctors here make "A Little" less..

 

Which is another way of saying 'no, people are not allowed to choose to only cover themselves.' I pay to eat fresh, nutritious, organic food, stay active and avoid sugar. How do you justify forcing me to cover the medical expenses of folks who live on cheetos, mountain dew and TV?

 

We do, but we all know that sometime in the future you would show up wanting free treatment.

 

The cost by age for Medicare is available.
It is substantially cheaper.

 

Here is a link which gives the spend per person in various nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita

A few highlights. The US spend is given as $9892 /person/year

France 4600
Germany 5551
Finland 4033
Canada 4753
Australia 4708.

We are paying double

 

I want free guns too. Where's my free guns? GIVE ME FREE GUNS!!

I mean, since we can just demand free stuff now and you're obligated to provide it, apparently.

 

I told you it replaces the private tax to the insurance company. You'd rather pay double for private health insurance? Make sense, man.

 

How we take away your free Fire Department, clean water and public schools? We shouldn't have to pay for services that benefit everyone..

 

That's going to happen eventually after you retire - or your company ends the coverage over costs.

My wife and are are there. 30 months and coverage ends. I don't know what the actual costs for independent medical coverage is going to be or
even if we qualify because of pre-existing conditions.

I watched my dad burn through $700,000 in medical costs before he reached Medicare age because he couldn't get insurance at any price because
of his pre-existing condition. It's the one thing I worry about in retirement.

 

I pay $50 a month to local co-op clinic. I could stop if I wanted them to stop serving me, and I just might. Before that, I just paid cash at the doctors office, prolly on average $200/year. How did you get phenagled into paying a 'tax' to an insurance company? Sounds like a scam. You know you just could stop paying it, right?