SNIP Investors who profited from Bernard Madoff’s massive Ponzi scheme even though they knew nothing of it must still pay back their profits, an appeals court decided Thursday. Madoff customers who received millions of dollars more than their original investments fought in court to hang on to their profits, arguing through their lawyers that they had receive the payouts in good faith and that too much time had passed to let Picard recover the money. A three-judge panel of the 2nd Circuit concluded, however, that the investors were not entitled to “fictitious” profits that actually was money belonging to other customers. It noted that the investors were permitted to retain the principal of their investments. ENDSNIP https://www.yahoo.com/news/innocent-madoff-investors-must-pay-220640780.html Thought this was fascinating.... My original thought was innocent investors shouldn't be 'punished', but on 2nd thought, a lot of other people lost a lot of money via Madoff and this will help balance the scales, since Madoff himself is in no position to make good here... Hard to believe cases like this are still making their way through our snails-pace judicial system as well. As the lawyers pointed out, a lot of time has gone by. I imagine if any money does exchange hands, I hope these people can get on some sort of payment plan. Also, you have to figure that those that did make Madoff profits made additional profits off of that money elsewhere. Good or bad decision here?
Sounds like a good decision although I'm sure the innocent investors don't agree. I'm actually impressed.
Even though they didn't know, I suppose it can be considered stolen money. At least they didn't lose anything.
We have the same investment guy... didn't you ever wonder why you are getting 4% and I'm getting 14%??
Our judicial system is great for shysters, I mean lawyers. That is my observation on the above. Next life I am going to reincarnate as a Lawyer or a Dentist.
It must be painful. I look at it like stolen goods. Even if you did not know it was stolen, its not right to keep it. It sounds like a fair outcome to me as long as the money goes back to the victims.
Nobody investing with Madoff was "innocent". They all knew something shady was going on, but just didn't care as long as they got paid.
Really? How would they know that? It's obvious now, but how much are you really going to question getting great returns from your investment guy?? If prosecutors could prove anybody knew about what he was doing and profiting, there are laws against that... I bet Madoff was given the option of flipping on folks for reduced time as well... If he did flip, his current 150 year sentence was a pretty bad job of that... I'll give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise... However, I'll be the first to admit I know very little about the entire thing...
Considering several hundred people in my city, some of them quite the pillars, are convicted felons simply for having invested in an investment club that turned out to be a ponzi scheme, I suppose it could be worse for them. Every single person was prosecuted--cops, doctors, little old ladies on social security. Only the organizers went to prison though..
I'm a tad confused... hundreds were prosecuted and are now felons, but few went to prison?? Was everybody else just given probation and what were the actual charges against the non-organizers... That was the point I was trying to make in post #10.... If they could have prosecuted some of these "innocent" Madoff investors, I'm sure they had to at least consider it, for the possible deterrent factor...
good decision. there was no actual profit. it was fake. it was money stolen from victims and given others. give the money back
It was a guy you meet at parties promising 20% returns on investments. Nobody asked what investments. I bet they all thought it was insider information he was trading on. The kind of crime that rich guys get away with and screws over the little guy. Sort of like people who buy stereo equipment out of the back of a van.
Good. Here's a link I found to the ruling/opinion of the Court. https://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/decisi...f-4318-8dc6-8cc63231f6b4/3/doc/19-429_opn.pdf Being barely a casual observer of law and the courts I'm not sure but it looks like a substantial number of defendants did not appeal the original verdict authorizing repayment of the funds. I'm a bit curious how it is that these folks actually came out ahead. EMANUEL GETTINGER, SOUTH FERRY BUILDING COMPANY, ABRAHAM WOLFSON and ZEV WOLFSON, UNITED CONGREGATIONS MESORA, SOUTH FERRY #2 LP, TURTLE CAY PARTNERS, COLDBROOK ASSOCIATES PARTNERSHIP, individually and in its capacity as general partner of TURTLE CAY PARTNERS, THE ESTATE OF MARIANNE LOWREY, JAMES LOWREY, in his capacity as general partner of TURTLE CAY PARTNERS, personal representative of the ESTATE OF MARIANNE LOWREY, trustee for MARIANNE B. LOWREY TRUST, and SUCCESSOR PARTNER COLDBROOK ASSOCIATES PARTNER, AARON WOLFSON, Defendants-Appellants, ABRAHAM ADEFF, GOLDI APPELGRAD, SIMCHA APPELGRAD, DAVID G. AVIV, B.F. & W. REALTY COMPANY, MIRIAM BEREN, ZELDA ELBAUM, RAZEL FASKOWITZ, ROSLYN GETTINGER, MORRIS GOLDSTEIN, SAMUEL GOLDSTEIN, MR. ISRAEL GROSSMAN, KALMAN HALPERN, ZEVI HARRIS, JOSEPH KATZ, BESSIE KAUFMAN, DAVID KAUFMAN, A. TRUST, A.N. TRUST, A.O.N. TRUST, AA. TRUST, AARON TRUST, ABRAHAM TRUST, ABRAHAM N. TRUST, AL. TRUST, ALISA TRUST, Defendants On a related note, Mike Milken having almost single-handedly caused the SnL "crises" is free today with a reported net worth of $3.7B
Yeah, I'm confused by this as well. Unless of course someone finally started prosecuting Amway and thereby depriving Denny's of its 11pm coffee crowd. Please post a link or share the name of the case if possible.