Christians, what are you afraid of?

I think for the most part atheists do coexist. I've noticed a few of them that seem to want revenge against whatever religion they were raised in.

I understand that myself I felt that way about the religion I was raised in. But I grew up. I realized it just wasn't the right fit for me. It's almost like they're angry that God isn't Santa Claus.

 

That was for you, by the way....

 

No. Times are changing. We have made progress. We are no longer killed or banished for questions clergy cant answer.

 

Maybe growing up with fire and brimstone Christians clouded your view. Isolated communities tend to think like that and it probably is due to some fear.
At least admit this goes both ways. Besides, everyone hates Christmas commercialism so bringing meaning back into it is a good thing. No?

 

Ironic that for hundreds of years afterwards, it was those claiming a religion built around him that did the same to others.

 

We have come far. Only a dozen or so years back, mainstream christianity was still pushing that honosexuals are deviants and sinful for being born gay. Islam us still mostly stuck there, but is improving too.

It can, but we would still be comparing a mountain to an ant hill.

The soltice celebrations (which are common to many different cultures and religions and predate "Christmas") are really just a fun excuse to party with friends and family. Make if it whatever you wish.

 

This book explains things.
https://www.amazon.com/God-Virus-Re...&keywords=the+god+virus&qid=1607901267&sr=8-1

With respect to Buddhism, I an not aware of any more proof or evidence of claims than the Christians provide for their religion but perhaps that is a different discussion.

 

The difference?

Buddhism doesn't require you to believe anything. It is not a religion so much as a discipline. Believe what you can prove. Doubt what you cannot. Faith is not required. In fact, faith is an obstacle to understanding.

 

We can answer them, you just dont like the answers, then you tell us we aren't "real" clergy, discount the answers we give you and tell everybody we can't answer them. It's a lost cause if you're just going to lie about what we tell you.

 

If I had to say, I'd say they don't want "revenge" against a religion, I'd say they want revenge against an individual or a group of individuals they know personally. These days bigotry is fashionable if you're bigoted against the right people, and that's what judging a group by the individual is - bigotry.

 

you make a good point it's not necessarily the religion as a whole or even a sect of the religion. I remember having several bones of contention with the denomination I was raised in, but the particular one that sticks in my craw and the one I've actually learned to see past now was individuals that either took it to seriously or had different ideas that they wanted to claim were liturgical.

I agree with that too. I would say bigotry to certain degree is natural. And you have to be able to grow as a person to get past it to be able to see all of the individuals for the individuals that they are versus classing the group as one particular view.

There was an excellent insight and I thank you for sharing it.

 

I'm convinced more and more that one of the greatest problems we have is the number of people whose lives are shaped by some form of "brainwashing" or propaganda. Reasoned, honest discussion with them is typically impossible because such discussion requires we each be just a little vulnerable. We have to be willing to consider that our mythical ideas are worthy of questioning. And I don't think most people who are heavily influenced by propaganda can do that.

 

I would say stating that I'm not certain is a form of vulnerability that I presented and was attacked for.

Leaving room to be shown to be mistaken is a form of honesty that I was certainly capable of.

Not speaking with absolute certainty means you're brainwashed?

 

I've never seen your answers, so I can't judge you in particular. Religions are as varied as there are believers to intent and re-interpret them.

I have no issue with hippy Christians preaching peace and love and living in harmony with other religions and non-religion. Is that you? I definitely have issue with authoritarian fire and brimstone Christians who attempt to control others and declare abomination of homosexuals, sex-liberal folks, etc. I have issues with religious people who try to get their myths to stand in the way of science, or who strive for theocracy in any form as well.

If you can keep your God to yourself and not push it on myself or others, not demand we adhere to your religious tenets, and not try to get in the way of open inquiry without resorting to violence or attempts to dominate others, and just preach peace and love in Jesus etc, that's fine with me. Live and let live? Okay. Believe whatever you want. Just don't try to force it on the rest of us.

I'm all for freedom of religion. That by definition must include freedom from religion, because you can't have freedom of religion without freedom from the other guy's religion.

 

Other religions, not Christianity. Christians still believe what they have always believed, Jesus was born of a virgin, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and buried, and on the third day rose again. Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons don't, but they are not Christians. Who says so? you might ask? The rest of Christianity, that's who. You don't get a vote.

Well, I have an issue with authoritarian atheists telling me what I can say or not say. If your beliefs are that insecure that you have to shout us down in public to make other people think you know what you are talking about, count me out. I use discretion in my dealings with lay people but if you push me for an answer don't complain when you get one.

This does not match your previous paragraph.

No, freedom of religion is not "freedom from religion"

 

I don't think you understand how faith works.

PS. Full disclosure: I'm an Agnostic.

 

Sure traditions have overlapped and there are different ways to celebrate... that was kind of my point. Conflicts (often barbaric ones) also predated Christianity. Any group of people can be thought of ants
“We’ve come far” In many ways yes... as long as some of you remember not to rid the world of things you don’t agree with. It would be very hypocritical.

 

There is a lot more variety from there. If you think only your particular small sect of Christianity is the only Christianity, then I don't know what to tell you. I have no doubt that other sects think they are the only Christians and you aren't. I consider whoever calls themselves Christian to be Christian.

I do too. You should be allowed to say whatever you want to say. And we should address you accordingly. That goes for everyone.

What do you mean by "lay people"? You think you have some special know how that other Christians lack?

No, it doesn't.

Yes, it is. You can't be free to practice your religion if another religion is forced upon you, say Islam for example. Muslims demanding society lives by Shariah Law is a violation of my freedom from religion, and of your freedom of religion.

 

But what are atheists afraid of?
If two black ladies in church clothes come to my door in the afternoon, I hide!

I think Christians who get their dander up when they hear "atheist" are usually fundamentalists or the very conservative that may see it as the work of Satan. Most experiences I've had, I think, makes on hearing I'm an atheist is to make them uncomfortable. It's as as if I am questioning their judgement and they do not like to question their faith. The usual question is where do you go after you die and "in the ground" is not a fulfilling answer. So that question is a number one fear and me discounting it with nothing else to offer is not helpful.

I quit trying to talk people out of their faith in college because I learned it is something some people need.

 

I think anybody who gets upset with the presence or the existence of somebody who doesn't share their beliefs is having an existential crisis.

You shouldn't hide from black church ladies even if they're in one of the weird religions they're probably some of the nicest people you'll ever meet, at least that has been my experience. they might call you child if you're considerably younger than they are or sugar if your not but I find that rather sweet and endearing.

The church hags the hateful people they don't go door-to-door the church doesn't want them going door-to-door. they put them on decorating duty or something of that nature

 

Well, "lay people", if they are Christians, are people with limited theological education.

Atheist lay people are people with limited theological education who think they know everything. They think when they call themselves "atheists" it somehow intimidates us. They think they can talk us out of our faith and that they know the difference between one denomination and another but they can never demonstrate it. They also drag the Muslim faith into it as if it matters.

 

I was joking and I have answered the door in the past before I figured out what they were and had to tell them I'm not a believer. Now it's easier to not answer the door.

My, what a abroad brush we paint with. You seem to have everything figured out.....in your mind. Why did you reference my comment?

 

After 30 years of ministry I DO have it figured out. Prove me wrong.