Culture of Shootings , "Thoughts and Prayers" But No Solutions

Eisenhower was the first to coin it: Military-Industrial Complex. He was speaking of course about war being a very lucrative commodity and how corrupt politicians were sleeping in a threesome with the military and the weapons manufacturers. These mass shootings are a simpler version of the same unholy relationship, sans the military. I suppose the police are the unwitting participants in place of the military .... or perhaps just a scapegoat.

 

That is a very valid analysis. You describe the dynamics in place very well.

Well done ..

 

School shootings surged to record levels this spring. One sixth-grader tells why he opened fire at his middle school.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...Q.Rh50LgWqqLe-4v2omdfdBlcbyukRNZKrGimC3qU0Zgc


They are learning early ....from the culture they live in.

 

Impossible.
School are gun-free zones.

 

It is not impossible. That is one of the problems. But you are ma;king a point about gun control

 

Sure it is.
Schools are gun free zones.
How can there be a shooting where there are no guns?
Thus, impossible.

 

Are students actually checked for weapons before the enter the school building??

 

You don't get it.
The...schools...are...gun...free.
Thus, no one can shoot someone there.

 

Fans flee for safety after 4 people shot outside Washington Nationals baseball game

"Fans scrambled for their safety after four people were shot Saturday night outside Nationals Park in Washington, D.C., police say. The game between the Washington Nationals and San Diego Padres was suspended after the sound of gunfire appeared to rock the park."

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...s-and-prayers-but-no-solutions.586251/page-44

Shootings are the norm......now.

 

Given DC's gun control laws, how is this possible?

 

Thanks to defunding the police. But it's most common in liberal cities with strict gun control and other bad policies.

 

If you could put an end to murder if you had a solution for murder why aren't you presenting it?

It's not part of our country's DNA it's part of our species people murder each other throughout all time and throughout all cultures.

 

Yes... humanity has a long history of killing itself and each other. It still chooses weapons to resolve their issues as opposed to dialogue and civility. But the shootings in the US have become so pronounced..........they seem akin to a war torn nation. Other nations have guns.......and yet don't seem to have the same degree of shootings.

Andyes...... culture plays into it too......some cultures emphasize the "fight" as opposed to the "talk". Being a "fighter" has been glamorized by movies and reinforced in the culture itself.

as far as changing it............ not sure it is possible. It is too entrenched now. Perhaps the best we can do is keep educating people on how to own and use weapons SAFELY. etc.
It has become such a sensitive issue......as folks are more terrified of having their guns removed than of the mass shootings that take place. And then some cultures are just more violence prone than others.

 

Hyperbole and ignorance, all in one statement. Impressive.

 

Do you see any problem at all?? and if you do , what is your idea for a potential resolution? If this is an acceptable status quo......... than fine. folks just have to work around it., live with this and just hope they don't get caught in the crossfire. If they do.....it is just bad luck . It might be too idealistic ( and unrealistic) to aim for less violence in this culture.

 

Yes. People addressing the issue with ignorant and hyperbolic nonsense is an immense problem.

 

How would you address the issue??

 

What cultures are you referring to and why do you think that culture (cultures) is more violence prone?

 

Maybe we could approach your question by asking: which nation/ culture has the least shootings and is more prone to solving their issues peacefully and with dialogue? And what makes them different from America?? How have they evolved into having a a low tolerance for violence?? America is a very aggressive.....and many times angry nation and culture... and this could be a contributing factor.

It would seem to be a lot more complicated than just a "gun issue".

 

Well, my question was based on you saying that some cultures are more violence prone. You didn't specifically attach that label to Americans (USA) which is why I asked.

I was having a conversation with another poster regarding prisons in the US and that fits here as well. At one time I was a child abuse advocate and I consulted with a ministry to create a program for men leaving prison to have a structured environment in which they could get the help they needed to reacclimate to free society. I also volunteered to help a women's prison by starting a book drive so they could have reading materials on various subjects.

One of the things I learned very quickly is that "as a whole" we don't care about people that have been arrested and served time. Essentially, when a person is in prison for any reason or any duration, they are basically shunned by the rest of society. I had a very eye-opening conversation with a woman responsible for the disposable of all books being taken out of circulation at our local library. She had thousands of books on all kinds of subjects but she was wasn't willing to work with me to donate them to the local women's prison. In her opinion, "those people" are trash and I'd rather throw them away than help with something like that. At the time, I just assumed she was just an odd duck and continued on my mission. I quickly learned that many people felt that way and didn't want to help even when they were going to just throw the books away. At the time, I remember sitting with that for a quite and bit and trying to understand that line of thinking. It was tough.

Some of the things I thought about were...

What do people think prisoners do with their time while incarcerated?

Why is it not perceived to be a good thing to help them use that time effectively so they are better equipped to start anew when they leave incarceration?

What do people think formerly incarcerated people do when they leave prison (where do they work, live, get support, etc.)?

Why can't people separate the "act" of what lead to incarceration from the "person"? [People make mistakes]

[As an aside, I absolutely will help anyone if I'm in a position to do so and I have no prejudices against any group of people. However, I have always refused to work with people convicted of rape and/or child abuse. I honestly would pay for the weapons and ammunition to shoot them all on the spot if this was MJ's world. I am NOT discussing these monsters. Anybody convicted of anything else is fine, just not them.]

So, fast forward to about two years ago. I was watching some stuff on Netflix and ran across a program about prison systems around the world. Some were as bad or worse than ours BUT some were vastly different. For example, in Norway, prisoners do not share a room with other prisoners. They have a small area with a regular twin bed, sitting table and chair but no shared space. They also have the responsibility of preparing their own meals. I can't recall but I think they had some kind of voucher system where the men could actually go to the in-prison "grocery store" and buy food and non-alcoholic beverages. They were assigned chores and attended various support type groups. It was amazing! And, the one thing the "head person" (I can't remember if they call that role "warden" there) said that really hit home for me was "If you treat them like human beings, they will act like human beings." It was very well done.

But guess what? Since that time, I have talked to approximately 8 people about that prison program. And, all 8 times I was told it was "bull ****!" Every single person I talked to was furious at the idea of doing anything like that here. Most didn't give me any reason(s) but a couple did. The one that stands out the most is one of the kindest people you would ever meet but she has ZERO sympathy or empathy for anybody that's been arrested. I was honestly shocked by her reaction. And, like all those years ago when I was tasked with community outreach to obtain services for ex-felons, it made me feel awful. How can we expect them to stay out of jail or prison if we just wash our hands of them?

I apologize this got lengthy but I wanted to understand more about your comment and get an idea of where you were headed with it. I don't know what the magic answer is but it's obvious, more than obvious, that something has to change. And, I fear nobody is really wanting to do that because prisons are for-profit businesses. A ton of people make a ton of money by sticking with the status quo. I really wish we were better than that.

 

First: I am so impressed with the effort you made to help people in prison. And just as impressed with the prison system you described........that is so much more humane. and conducive to effective rehabilitation.

Itisso true....If you treat peplelikehumans.......the are inclined to behave better. If you treat them as trash.........as seems to be the case in much of the attitude you found.......... then little wonder these peple remain angry, resentful and hurt.........and can't find a path to change their behavior.

This is what I eaan about the US culture being overly aggressive, insensitive ......and sees things in terms of strength and weakness. The weak are cast aside like trash too. American culture is not a very kind culture.s It is very self serving. ....... money oriented , status oriented...... and seems to worship those that are able to make zillions of dollars. Humanitarian values don't factor in........as they do in most advanced nations.

The "culture of violence" is but a part of a the greater aggressive culture.. There is a degree of narcissism that is rather destrucveit oo. It is interesting that Americans as a peple don't take kindly to any kind of feedback..... ie criticism and just get defensive.........as opposed to learning from the feedback. Self assessment is not really a strong suit. I also think power does this to a collective mentality. Most other advanced nations are able to accept criticism and learn from it............and grow . The US is a nation of extremes....

 

actually this is false murder has been declining for decades.

It's just that if it bleeds it leads. And with less blood there's more competition

yeah that's like the video games make kids violent argument I don't buy it.

I don't think this is an issue of education I think it's an issue of apathy.

People just saying well this is part of the culture and it's entrenched, trying to find things to blame my TV video games or guns for political party you don't like.

The truth is I think people would be upset if we didn't get to talk about it. Because then they wouldn't be able to use the event to crap on whatever they don't like.

I remember hearing from the Bible beaters how a hurricane was God's wrath, and from the green called how it was because I drive a truck and don't recycle.

The world is a violent and chaotic place and none of us are getting out of it alive.

 

- Get rid of any and every gun law for which the necessity for and efficacy of cannot be demonstrated
- Make it easier for the law-abiding to defend themselves.
- Do not release violent felons from prison until they can be trusted with a gun