How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?

Wow, you provided a lot of information! I'm impressed with your knowledge. But I don't know what the E Text and J Text are.

 

How exactly?

 

And this means that they're not bibles?

 

if you say so

 

bible n. A comprehensive manual that describes something. (e.g., handyman’s bible).
Bible, the English form of the Greek name Biblia , meaning "books".

So then...."Bible" is merely a word created by humans used to describe a book full of human created words.

 

RE: How does a secular or atheist person get a religious and / or spiritual experience?
SUBTOPIC: Experiential Event
⁜→ wgabrie, et al,

BLUF: Anyone can have a "spiritual experience." The question becomes - what happens after the experience?

(COMMENT)

Secular (not overtly or specifically religious) means an attitude - activity - or something else which has no religious or spiritual foundation or basis. So, if you are playing baseball and a miracle happens on the field, the secular nature of baseball does not change. But the observers in the baseball stands who withness the miracle might walk away emotionally or psychologically affected; whether they are atheists or not.

Those people who have a "near-death experience" (NDE) (a successful resuscitation has no religious basis) most often come away with a new perspective.

Even "atheist" can witness or become a party to an event caused by a divine force or something that might appear to be a Supreme Being. I believe the intent of the question concerns the person (having no belief in a Supreme Being) becoming a party to an event/happening that is so profoundly extraordinary that it is beyond explanation by anything other than divine intervention. Can a person who follows The Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR) → that everything must have a reason or cause. We may not be able to determine that reason or cause, but there is an actual answer that follows the laws of nature. In that respect, someone that follows PSR and who witnesses a divine event within a secular activity → will probably not consider the event as divinely inspired or caused.

Just My Thought,

Most Respectfully,
R

 

The same way you plagiarize anything.

You take something someone else wrote and then pretend you wrote it and then to add insult to injury, don't give credit to the person you stole the written works from.

 

We know for a fact that the Hebrew texts you know and love were cobbled together from at least 3 separate independent texts.

Those texts are known as the:

1. E Text, the oldest, and so named because the writer always refers to the god(s) as elohim. Whenever you see the suffix "im" on CBH word is plural. The fact that Hebrews now define elohim in the singular and specifically to mean Yahweh is irrelevant and anachronistic. If we could find the earliest versions of E, they might actually say it was Enki, Ningishiddza and Ninhursag who created humans. Later, probably at the time the Hebrews shifted from polytheism to henotheism, their names were replaced with the generic elohim. You have to remember that Abram/Abraham knew who those gods were, but a 1,000 years later -- when Sumer & Akkad had disappeared from history 1,000 years earlier -- the Hebrews wouldn't know who they were.

Also remember that Abram is a priest-in-training because Terah is a priest and priesthood is hereditary.

At the end of the year, Terah would take one tablet from the 7 Tablets of Creation -- in which 6 tablets describe acts of creation or basically the mytho-history in Genesis and the 7th tablet extols the virtues of the gods -- and climb the ziggurat with Abram in tow and read the tablet to the people gathered below as part of the New Year celebration. The next night, he would climb the steps and read from the 2nd tablet and so on each night until all 7 tablets were read aloud to the people. And this became like the Rocky Horror Picture Show were people would dress up like the gods and act it out as the tablets were read.

You can see where 1,000 years later people are confused and think Earth was created in 6 days and the gods rested on the 7th day.

2. J Text, because the write always refers to the god as Yahweh.

3. P Text, because it was written by a priest who writes almost entirely about priestly matters and laws and rules and regulations.

4. D Text. That's Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic Histories written by Jeremiah and Hilkiah, and then by later Aaronid priests.

5. R is the redactor. There's more than one and then weaved all the stories together and made lots of additions and subtractions to fit whatever was going on politically and socially.

Each of those writers have their own unique writing style with their own unique goto words and goto phrases.

They are easy to spot, but not in English. You have to read the Hebrew to see it. That's how the Unabomber was identified. He used certain words and phrases repeatedly, and when his works were published in newspapers and magazines, his brother instantly knew who it was.

It's the same with the Deluge stories.

The original Sumerian/Akkadian version, it is a celestial event -- a comet or asteroid impact Earth and there is evidence of that -- that the gods could not stop, but at the same time they didn't warn humans because Enki hated humans.

Fast-forward 1,000 years and the theme is the gods could have stopped this event, but didn't because they're mean bastards.

Fast-forward another 1,000 years to 500 BCE, and the Hebrews and others change the theme to god caused the event as punishment.

Same with the Book of Job. That was written 7,000 years ago in Sumer.

It passes through several cultures before the Hebrews get it, but note there are 32 Sumerian/Akkadian loan-words in the Book of Job. The redactors (R) altered the theme a bit from time to time to comport with then-Hebrew culture.

 

No, what I'm asking is, how do you know that they plagiarised?

 

So then ANY book is a Bible?

 

.

 

Your claim that it's a "bible" is unsupported.

 

I claim nothing, your claim that it's not a bible is unsupported...

 

Oh, so you didn't make the claim that it's a bible? I'm pretty certain that you DID!

So it's up to me to prove a negative? Oh come on, you're better than that! I know you are!

 

it's called a bible in the article, your the one claiming it's not - all I said is that it fit the definition based on the dictionary, which it does

the fact is, it's the oldest religious texts from the Christian religion ever found and you seem to be upset about that... why?

 

So you'll believe any article?

WHY did it fit the definition? Just because it was a collection of writings?

I'm not upset.

 

If they're secular/atheist why would they want something that might not jibe with their secular/atheist beliefs?

 

so you don't believe what the Bible says? you don't believe God's word?

 

You don't have to put anything in any plate. All you have to do is recognize and accept that a higher power exists. That will open you up to God's spirit, and then leave the rest to Him. I suggest reciting the Lord's prayer:

Our Father Who art in heaven, Hollowed by Thy name. Thy Kingdom come Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not unto temptation. Amen.

 

You know nothing, other than what you're told by those who discard everything that doesn't suit them. Christianity had spread in the world through the miracles and martyrdom of the Apostles and the Saints before Saint Constantine came into power. This is why there were shrines dedicated to their martyrdom all over Europe and in the Near and Middle East.

What Saint Constantine did, was eliminate heresies and unify Christian beliefs by calling for an Ecumenical Council of all the Bishops in the world. To establish doctrine, all the bishops had to be in agreement. If there was dissension, then it could not be considered the works of the Holy Spirit.

This church was built by Constantine's mother Saint Helen on Paros after her return from Jerusalem. A friend of ours has a house on the island and was married there. Isn't it lovely?

 

Maybe they're looking for something more in their lives. It happens you know, even among the best and worse of us. But look, it's all up to the individual.

 

There are what is known as pseudo gospels, and they were discarded by the Fathers/Saints of the Church. The way they knew which writings were truly the Word of God, and which one's weren't, was through the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit.

The so called Bible found in Ankara is interesting though. If authentic and if it is older than Islam, then it might be one of the heresies prevalent before Constantine called an Ecumenical Council to establish doctrine and unify the faith. If so, it could have influenced the Islamic belief that Jesus Christ wasn't crucified.

Of course it could also be a forgery and written by a Muslim to encourage conversion - which is more likely.

 

the new is often built on top of the old, even Christianity

 

I agree, man picked the stories to include in the current bible and left many out

and I agree, it could be, but like you said, it's interesting just the same

 

The front of the church is definitely new or restored, but the rest of it isn't which makes it about 1,700 years old. Saint Helen stopped on the island on the way back from Jerusalem and liked the people, and so she had the church built.

The name is Our Lady of the Hundred Doors. Only 99 doors can be found, and there's a prophecy about the hundredth door and when it will be found, but I can't remember what it is.