Have Democrats abandoned the 'my body, my choice' argument?

Sorry FoxHastings but due to the "quality" of your arguments you are just going to be ignored.

 

No it's just selective it's your body and your choice when it comes to abortion but when it comes to the vaccine your body is government property.

 

Straw man, slippery slope. You are rich in fallacies. Vaccine mandates have always existed. Yes, the Feds have the right to set conditions of employment for their own employees (like any other employer), and vaccination is a legitimate worksite safety issue, while abortion is not. Again, nobody is FORCING anybody to get injected, because the person has the option of claiming exemptions or quitting; that is, the PERSON is not FORCED; the EMPLOYEE must have it if the employee wants to work for the Feds - that's very different and you know it. Or I hope you do. Regardless, since I suspect you of being paid to spout your anti-vaxxer nonsense here, you won't acknowledge the soundness of this line of thought.

You seem to be upset just because of "government" control when the issue here is "employer." Since the Federal Government is also an employer, as far as their own employees go, yes, they do have the right to set it, just as much as a private business.

I thought you extreme Right wingers thought that employers have the right to do as they see fit, free market and all, corporate autonomy and all, business-friendly legislation and all... but I guess you turn big hypocrites when the issue no longer fits your agenda.

 

Why can't they wear masks instead?
Or is that off-topic?

There are too many complicating factors here.
The vaccine does not reduce the risk that much, and there's obviously no big problem otherwise they would still be requiring them to wear masks.

This is not justified.

 

The pot is calling the kettle black. So ironic...
The poster saying the above is the same one who quotes bogus anti-vaxxer sites that spout junk science, and the same who told blatant lies here... such as saying that there are no studies on ivermectin (there are about 100), that no drugs sponsored by Trump got approved (when he touted Remdesivir, Regeneron mab, and convalescent plasma and all 3 got approved), that vaccinated people fare worse than unvaccinated ones (linking to data that actually shows the opposite), and so on and so forth.

 

You obviously don't understand the position.

Government is different. Government is much bigger than any private company is has a monopoly by law.

Private companies are only supported by consumer choice.

 

Yes, they should also wear masks. The current CDC recommendation is for people to wear masks indoors regardless of vaccination status.

In my hospital, the vaccines AND N95 masks are mandatory for all employees, as well as face shields or goggles in certain areas. We do have the testing opt-out and medical and religious exemptions.

 

But that is deflecting the issue a little bit. The point was they're not requiring masks like they are requiring vaccines.

I'd be curious to see what percent of federal workers are even wearing masks in the office right now. Specifically the percent of those who are vaccinated.

 

Oh really? What size is the Walmart workforce, pray tell? Answer: 2.3 million people.
Amazon: 1.3 million.

 

Yes, hospitals do require/mandate masks. No exceptions. VA hospitals included.

 

Sounds like you've never heard of private companies that do business with the Feds.

 

Fair enough point. That is also somewhat problematic.

 

was referring to federal government offices

 

So you acknowledge that hospitals have a right to require/mandate masks and vaccines (and that, then, will include federal hospitals like the VA) but offices do not? In what way are these working sites separated under the law? How do you handle, then, the administrative offices of the hospitals, inside the same building?

 

That's true, but in one way, Walmart is a very democratic institution. Rich people are not shopping there. It's mostly ordinary people and lower income people. If you disagree with how they run things and don't want to give your money to them, you don't have to.

 

Is Amazon very democratic?
So Walmart is democratic? You should know that they will be mandating the vaccine for employees starting October 4th. Now what?
You keep moving the goal posts, LOL. You are obviously losing this argument.
Sure, if you don't want to give your money to them, you don't have to.
If you don't want to work for Walmart or Amazon, you don't need to.
If you don't want to work for the Feds, you don't have to.

 

I acknowledge that hospitals have a right to mandate masks and that privately funded hospitals may have a right to require vaccines in some cases but maybe not all.
Hospitals usually get treated a little differently than other private businesses due to their monopoly-like nature in many places, and the fact the local consumers may not have much other choice due to the urgent emergency circumstances of their need for the hospital.

 

@kazenatsu
Do you have kids? Are they vaccinated against measles, polio, diphtheria, tetanus?
Do you support the immediate cancellation of all such vaccines mandates for school, imposed on the population in all red states by all Republican governors?

 

And so we see the slippery slope, "this is okay so that is okay too".
But where does that type of justification eventually lead?

 

I'm not sure, but it is a very borderline issue, in my opinion. Could go either way.

It does concern me very much about the freedoms being taken away.

I suppose I would try to use a mathematical analysis to see if it truly justifies taking away freedom.

I think some of those old vaccines are not like the newer vaccines.

 

You have a tremendous ability to dodge inconvenient questions. You never addressed what to do with the administrative offices inside hospitals.
And you didn't talk about federally-owned hospitals; why should they be different?
Did you know that the VA requires flu shots for employees? They have always done that, including when Republicans were in the White House and nominated the VA Secretary.

"VHA Directive 1192.01 establishes policy and provides guidance for the prevention of seasonal influenza in VHA facilities through the vaccination of health care personnel (HCP). This policy requires all health care personnel (HCP) to receive an annual influenza immunization as a condition of employment."

 

Simple. It leads to the idea that all safe and efficacious vaccines against serious illnesses should be given.

 

We don’t have a mask mandate but that is because we have contained the virus itself

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09...ination-super-saturday-pfizer-blitz/100473228

Don’t get me wrong it is a pain having border restrictions but it is working

 

So you would want a classmate peer of your children to have the right to kill them by passing measles and polio onto them. Gotcha.

 

For government run hospitals there should not be any vaccine mandate, unless two different options are given. For example smoking and non-smoking sections. Vaccine hospital and non-vaccine hospital option right nextdoor.