Matt Gaetz Says Defunding Ukraine Should Be Top Priority

Ukraine should be defunded. Why should the US involve itself with a dispute between two neofascists (Putin and Zelenskyy)? I know, one reason the US wants to continue to be a protectorate of Ukraine is because many Americans make money from the government of Ukraine and because many Americans, laughingly, think Putin is communist.

I mean, do you like supply chain shortages in the US? Gas price hikes in the US? A depletion of US weapons to defend ourselves? A higher inflation in the US? A possible nuclear war? Russia siding with China? All these things are in part caused by America's involvement with Ukraine in this war.

And is the US's involvement in the Ukraine war helping the people of Ukraine? Nah.

 

For some people that stuff is as close to a primary source as they will ever get. When you work as hard at being ignorant as most people work at being informed literally anything that agrees with you is 'proof', not matter how lacking in facts.

 

Yet another thread where you realize how pointless it is trying to work out if Republicans support Putin's invasion because they actually like him or because they are like angry children mindlessly opposing what a Democrat President is doing.

It all ends up sounding exactly the same.

 

MAGA 101...

 

Russia is demonized as undemocratic because their elections are dominated by a supermajority party- Putin's party. Whats funny (tho not in a 'ha ha' kind of way) is Zelensky's party held almost precisely the same dominating supermajority in their parliament as Putin does, and that was BEFORE Russia invaded and Zelensky banned the next biggest party in his govt- the pro-Russia party. So you can call Ukraine 'burgeoning democracy working amazingly well' all you want, but in reality their govt is rated as about on par with El Salvador and just under Mexico in terms of freedom, representation and effective governance, and in terms of authoritarianism it has the exact same power monopoly in its politics as Russia does.

None of that means we should or shouldn't help them fend off an aggressor though. The only pertinant point to that end is- are they an allie we pledged to protect, and/or are we in the business of being Team America World Police? To the first, no, we are not allies. To the second... well why is it we arent shipping Bradley fighting vehicles and tank hunter drones to 'democratic' Armenia while we watch atucrstic Turkey arm autocratic Azerbaijan to the teeth for a final invasion there? Ostencibly because Armenia isn't our ally and we're not the world's police... though I think we all know in reality we dont care about Armenia simply because its aggressor is not Russia.

 

Yeah, I've wanted to inject or reply to some of the comments to say Ukraine despite being corrupt (I've worked there and visited there,it is) the country has a lot of hope for it because the corruption is a response to being the whipping boy of Russia for decades. They are a little like traumatised insecure children looking for leadership. They're all up a quite friendly likeable people. I believe that they would respond very quickly to Western frameworks for nation building. Yes it will take time but I really think the nation has got potential. They are up and coming whereas the feeling within Russia is bordering despair and loss of hope. You can't really compare the two countries.

I think that anyone that visits Ukraine (pre-war) would see the potential grandeur of the place.

Of course trying to get an optimistic dialogue like that going is going to be impossible in this thread...

 

I think Gaetz should shut his mouth and focus on plans to reduce kickbacks, corruption and the ability for lobbyists to sway power in the US government system (as promised) - the only thing I agree with him on.

 

What an absolute crock. Russia is accurately described as a dictatorship because the same person has run it without interruption for over 20 years! Did you seriously think nobody noticed? This isn't about some 'supermajority', it is about a system where it is only possible for one side to win. Political opponents and independent media are persecuted. This is the NORMAL state of affairs in Russia, not the result of a foreign invasion that threatens the existence of the nation. If you believe this stuff you are as removed from reality as the Putin apologists.

Ukraine undoubtedly has its issues, but it has regularly changed government since independence. It has changed Presidents and the makeup of its Parliament regularly. Prior to the invasion the majority party had 250 seats of 424. That is less of a 'supermajority' than some states in America, and there is more chance of overturning it than in some US states. It is also not enough to change the constitution. The previous parliament had a coalition majority, also of mainly new parties. That coalition actually fell apart leading to a change of Prime Minister. Sounds a lot like democracy, doesn't it? Compare to Russia and see if you can tell the difference.

Your argument is so poorly based that I can't really tell how much of it refers to a series of temporary measures in place for the duration of the war. I would point out that suspension of normal democratic functions is hardly unprecedents during wartime. During WW2 Britain did the same without even having an invading army on its soil. That great symbol of freedom Winston Churchill did not have to worry about troublesome opposition politicians, disagreeable media, union agitation or basic civil rights. Funnily enough no one has seemed to care much about that in the 80 odd years since. It certainly hasn't stopped Americans elevating him to a level of secular sainthood Britons of that period did not.

To recap. Ukraine is a democracy. The current President was elected with a huge majority because he promised to protect democracy and fight corruption. Russia is a dictatorship. Even if Russians wanted a democracy run by people who are not correct they are not going to be able to elect one. Making up things that are just not true or misrepresenting temporary measures in time of war as the same thing as long term measures put in place by a dictator is as dishonest as an argument gets.

I can't fairly say this is a worse argument than your first paragraph, but I'm not convinced that is possible. First, you didn't sign an agreement guaranteeing Armenia's border. Second, the US has been helping Ukraine improve its institutions and military for some years. Third, Ukraine has been actively seeking closer relations with major US allies. Armenia already has an ally to help it and has not done any of this until its ally betrayed it. Despite that, EU monitors - American allies - are currently trying to settle the dispute & monitor the border.

OK, so I've wasted more of my time than any of this deserved. Before you post again can you please get a grown up to fact check it? Perhaps they will show you how its done so you don't keep humiliating yourself.

 

Yeah, I refer to them as the Fake Patriot Caucus.

 

Believe it or not, I don't give a **** about the government of France prior to 1776. I don't give a **** about George Washington or the Revolutionary War either. I live right now and my concern is the right now.

 

You posted that Russia was in the wrong 'cause Russia was the aggressor in the Ukraine war. Well, France was also the aggressor in the Revolutionary War.

Maybe you wanna rethink your aggressor position in the Ukraine war?

 

Again, and I can't stress this enough, I don't give a **** about France and what happened over 200 years ago. Reaching back that far for a deflection is an admirable stretch my friend, but you'll have to try that trick on someone else.

What is happening now is a large country is invading a small country because the leader of the large country wants to remake the empire he grew up in. He didn't start there and he won't stop there.

 

the republican run FED can stop hurting the country anytime they like, nothing to do with Ukraine funding

 

A. Ukraine is not neofascist. That is Putin's propaganda talking.
B. It affects us because it threatens our security interests in Europe. Unless you want another USSR in that area that will threaten Germany, Poland, France, and Italy, our strategic partners in mainland Europe, then I would suggest maybe you move to the Donetsk.

 

Having to ask 'why?' to defund the effort to support Ukraine suggests the person asking the question is not well informed about what's been going on there for many years. It suggests the person asking has never availed himself of "Ukraine On Fire" by Oliver Stone.

Gaetz is right--the US has no legitimate stake in what happens in Ukraine. Only the Grifters and the Military Industrial Complex have a stake there. He knows that our borders here are much more important than Ukrainian borders.

 

Totally. We should allow Russian imperialism to go unchecked because………..reasons

 

The Russians are protecting their country from military aggression brought by the US and NATO. That is every country's right under international law. What's forbidden under international law is military aggression, which the US practices all the time, all over the globe.

The historical record is clear. Those who ignore the mistakes of history are bound to repeat them. Biden and Burisma and the other grifters have alot of money riding on the outcome. They are going to lose. The Ukrainian people have already lost. Thanks federal government.

 

the trump-putin fart is taking a long time to filter thru the air of some of the denser republicans

 

They don't need to be refunded, but a dollar by dollar accounting of where our money is going should be prerequisite to additional funds.

 

Bravo!

 

By invading another country. Odd.

 

yes , Ukraine was the most corrupt country on the planet for many years

and guess what?? it was being corrupted by Russian mobsters who controlled the area for decades

Zelinsky gets elected and starts pushing back on the corruption ,,

the Russian mobsters get pissed off

and the NUMBER ONE Russian mobster named PUTIN just happens to have an army

so Russia invades Ukriane and says it is because Ukraine was trying to join NATO

 

So much with trying to reason with you.

 

That the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk haven't had a voice in Ukrainian gov't for years is evidence of a lack of democracy in Ukraine and is evidence that Zelenskyy is a neofacist.

 

I think most of the people, like Gaetz, and others are wanting to defund Ukraine is not based on the reality of what is happening over there. Gaetz simply wants Russia to win, no matter what. But it has to do with our national security interests in Europe, namely Poland, Germany, Italy, and France.