Trump can’t secure $454 million appeal bond in New York fraud case, his lawyers say

Since you’re making the claim, I am curious. Has a financial penalty ever been deemed cruel and unusual ? Or are you just pulling that out your ass?

 

Since there's a financial limit in criminal trials, what do you think? Instead of being a smartass, think about the question for a second.


https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/amendment-8/

History lesson time on why the 6th/8th were created: The king of England, by decree would punish his subjects by subjugating them to unpayable debts. Kind of like what's happening now. I imagine the appeal has to be heard before being sent to SCOTUS, but it has to be sent to SCOTUS because the penalty is actually damaging to the constitutional order of the United States.

 

You still have not yet told me.

Should Humpty*** be immune/exempt/excluded the STATUTE LAW which says, "The award is $10.00, if you want to appeal you have to pay into Court (escrow) $10.00 plus interest," on ANY basis, let alone "Gee Judge, I will die if they execute me," that is..."I can't rake up the $10.00, painlessly."

You answer that without prevarication and we can move on.

*Rapist
*Swindler
*Bordering on pathological

 

It isn’t a penalty. It isn’t punishment. It’s putting him in the position he would have been in if he hadn’t made misrepresentations on his financial statements.

 

LMAO, that's ridiculous. The purpose behind a verdict(in the case of a civil case such as this), isn't to turn the clock back. In that case, it should be the State of NY to award the bank, not the defendant. So yes, it's a penalty and any question about that is just, lulz.

I don't even think the Judge himself would argue that it's not a penalty. That's a new one.

 

It’s disgorgement. Do you understand that term? That isn’t a penalty.

 

LOL.. probably the latter

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/civil_penalties_(civil_fines). Stop it, it's a penalty. It's not even funny to even try this argument. I'm telling you His Honor wouldn't use that argument. That itself tells you something.

https://openyls.law.yale.edu/bitstr...ListwaCharlesSeide.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

SCOTUS held it's a penalty, bam.

 

RWers still gloated over the loss of sales to slake their cancel culture.

 

If you want me to be brutally honest the escrow should not be connected to the appeal. After all, the appeal is about the money that is being put into escrow to begin with. It goes without saying if he can't pay this absurd escrow, he obviously can't pay the penalty(I mean, it's in the title of the OP)

That means the defendant, in addition to liquidating his property cannot financially contest this decision(a decision that again, I find in violation of the 6th/8th amendments and provisions in cruel and unusual punishments.)

And the fact that any person could be subject to such penalties if a court 'finds' it(especially since it's an individual being fined, not a corporation), means that it's a injury on the US Constitution/ and the body of the Republic.)

To make it clear to you: The problem isn't that Trump is being fined, the problem is the amount.

 

FFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the LAW. STATUTE LAW. Will at least acknowledge that, and agree that no-one is exempt from STATUTE LAW?

 

Why is it “obscene”…? My understanding is that civil penalties are usually levied on a dual basis…damages and punitive…no?

OK…the estimates of the damages are between $150 and $200 million (the defrauded sum gained through more favourable interest rates). At the higher end of that estimate, it would mean that an additional $150 million has been levied as a punitive fine. So somewhere between 75 and 100% of the damages award. Is that unusual…?

 

Except in this case, there’s a delicious role reversal…..the lowly subjects are punishing the wannabe king…!

 

What amount would you think is reasonable ......if you think the amount is unreasonable??

 

It's questionable to even come to $150-200 million when the point of the judge's contention is Mar-A-Lago being valued at $18 million. So clearly even the penalty itself goes well beyond 75-100% of the damage award if we're going off the accepted valuation.

But yes, to add a penalty on top of the penalty already assessed is in my view, cruel and unusual. So we went from $18 million, to $150-200 million, to now $400+ million.

Who wants to bet if it did stay at $200 million(even though this is obscene), it probably gets paid?

 

Incidentally, The Ant tackled this and I kinda answered in his framework. So the principle complaint was that Trump overvalued the asset to gain a profit. Then he should be penalized to that profit. Nothing more or less. So if it's valued at $18 million, and you want to double that, it should be $36 million.

The idea that the sums gained= damages, is honestly absurd because the bank did not give Trump the 150-200 million. That's just the profit he generated as a result of the valuation. The Bank did not hold that valuation, so the bank isn't entitled to that 150-200 million any more than Trump is.

 

At least some of that involved unpaid taxes. And, that always grows due to nonpayment.

And, I don't understand how you think thieves should get to keep a portion of their ill gotten gain. Can you explain??

As for the lawsuit, it was the jury that decided how much Trump should pay. And, their conclusion came after the jury became aware of the damage Trump had done to her.

Trump posted bond and therefore may appeal.

 

Whoa…! Are you telling me that civil juries don’t often add a punitive penalty on top of damages…? And that it isn’t often a far greater amount than the original damages…??

If so, why aren’t you railing against the EJ Carrol verdict…? Why aren’t you baying at the moon on behalf of the hapless Rudolph Giuliani…?? In fact, go look at most successful civil suits and tell me how many that don’t have a punitive judgement that is greater than the damages toll…!

 

It is ill-conceived law, but it is law. Happy?

 

What…??! You think that the fraud only involved the valuation of his club at Mar a Lago…??

Try again mate…!

 

I mentioned the Carroll verdict and yes it's absurd for the same reasons(if not more). I'm not as crass as Trump, but there exists no example in US Case law of words being worth 90 million dollars.

 

Other valuations were also used as I understand it, but that was improper. The case before the Judge was Mar-a-lago, not his other properties.

 

It's not easy to decode what you mean here.

Part of the jury's thinking is that the penalty must be of a size that would deter Trump.

The day after Trump put up the bound, the court could no long adjust the penalty. And, thus Trump began again to defame his sexual assault victim.

She COULD sue again. It would be easier this time.

Do you think that would finally stop Trump from committing this aggression?

 

LMAO…trump is the boy who cried wolf.
Perhaps if he hadn’t continually lied about his wealth, the courts would have levied a smaller penalty for his serial crimes.
But what’s $500 million to a billionaire like trump, eh?
And why should banks loan a proven liar and grifter any money?
American banks have been denying trump loans for decades because they know he’s a lying con artist. That’s why the trump grifter family started getting in bed with foreigners to get loans and he became their quisling.
But no worries. Just pitch in and send trump your money to make America great again. If you each give him $100 bucks, he could pay his fine.

 

In a criminal case, the perp may be jailed instead of fined. A crime is against the government.

That's not available in civil suits.