Why follow God and what makes it moral?

Then why do you do it?
Forgiveness is what is required by YOU by Christ. How it is received you can't control. Forgiveness is not an acknowledgment of ones own error, but coping with anothers error in love.
When you say "we" disagree, you are really saying you disagree with scripture, for all I do is quote it, and you tell me why it doesn't apply to you.
The people with Jim Jones were members of a church, too.

 

You talk a good game, can you play the game? You asked three questions that are based upon your perception. So what you are asking us to do is to 'read your mind'. Now should we even attempt to read your mind, then we would be in gross error of the teachings of the Bible.

So now I am going to throw a question at you. Why are we, the Children of God, a 'stone of stumbling' to people such as yourself?

 

No idea. I don't perceive that to be the case. You rarely cause me to stumble.
Ok, I answered. Now your turn.
Why do you bear false witness?
85% of seminary graduates leave ministry within five years. Is it your theory that they are all sexual deviants? If so, why does ministry attract such a high percentage of sexual deviants? If you think this is absurd, why have you signed up for Neutral's fiction he invented that characterized me as one with absolutely no evidence of any kind? What would make an honorable Christian take that path?
You guys are not making this very hard.

 

Oh! Another example of how you use scripture to attempt to outwit the Christians? Strange that you should not quote the particular scripture that you use. Here, allow me to use it instead:
"Mat 18:21 ¶ Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? "

As I see it, your behavior disqualifies you from the accountability. Your behavior shows that you are not a 'brother' but a wolf in disguise. The devil appearing as an angel of light.

Like I said before, your father is the father of lies.

 

I am not sure about you, but I learned over 40 years ago to expect people, all people to be deceptive. Living by that knowledge of human kind, I have yet to be disappointed.

 

You may have noticed, some people never use one or two words, when 10,000 will totally confuse the issue.

 

Bad perception on your part... you do stumble even in front of me. You have been disobedient to the word of God. You left your assigned post.

I don't, now show and prove where I have.

Who said anything about seminary? Who said anything about 'sexual deviants'? Another 'bait and switch' attempt?

Did you attend a seminary? Then you should know.

More false representation. Where is my signature beneath any statement made by me indicating that I have "signed up for Neutral's fiction...."? You made the claim, now support that claim.

What would make a Christian abandon his post as a Pastor? You are really making this easy.

 

A better paying job. A desire to make a career change. Church politics which makes the positions available unappealing.

I could think of a dozens reasons why anyone would want to change jobs or employers. Why would that be any different from someone employed by a church?

 

It is all through the bible, kill anyone in your way, wipe out to the last man, woman and child anyone that has anything you want--I leave you with one of dozens of references "the city of Jericho".

 

If, as you say, you are 'not sure' about me, then why do you include me and my character in the same sentence talking about deception? Are you saying that I am being deceptive? If you are, then please provide the proof of that claim if you are making such a claim.

I just re-read your post and placed it in context to the quotation that you were referencing. In the above response, I intend no offense, and if any is perceived, then I offer this public apology in advance.

 

NOT A CENTRAL TENENT??
How do you do anything suggested by the biblical Jesus if you do not do the first thing, hate your family. According to the bible you must FIRST hate your family.
It is not hyperbole--how could it be, what is it exaggerated from--you must not like you parents very much?
Tiny backwater--the very first thing you must do is a tiny backwater???
Exactly how is anything that Jesus supposedly taught challenging? Well, other than the fact of believing in a non-existent god.

 

Actually, this is very well put--from the KJV:
Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

 

Here is another one that is very well put:
"Jhn 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Jhn 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Jhn 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we [are].
Jhn 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. "

Such a quaint little distinction being drawn in that passage of scripture. A distinction that separates those that were given by God and those who you have identified through "Luke 14:26 If any man come to me,......" (a self willed act and not necessarily based on a calling from God -- those that would call themselves Christian but are not). So, on those that are not the 'called according to his purpose, there has been placed the requirement of Luke 14:26. See:
"Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."

The Bible is truly a Book of mysteries... mysteries that all too many do not comprehend, because they try to lean on their own understanding as opposed to seeking out an answer from the Holy Spirit. With that leading of the Holy Spirit, the whole Bible unfolds like a beautiful flower that has sprung open in the light of day.

 

Yes, I as well as BB knew which verse you were pointing to. I think he did sum it up quickly without a huge commentary.

Just think of 'Hate' as being Synonymous with 'Love Less'.After that continue reading the passage onto a few verses down to the "salt of the earth" part and then you may understand why I thought that BB said it well.

 

Continue on to include the part about the 'salt of the earth' and you will see where BB is sitting. The quality of 'salt' that he held as a pastor, lost its savor when he abandoned his station at the pulpit. Yes! Reading part of the scripture allows you the privilege of taking out of context all that is said in a message.

 

Matthew 18:22
American Standard Version (ASV)


22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times; but, Until seventy times seven.

You missed it by one verse. Good try though.

 

I may have been mistaken. Before you said I had been forced to leave the ministry, which was not the case. I thought you were buying what Neutral was selling. If not, why do you think I was forced out when I have said repeatedly that I quit?
What makes most pastors quit is a faith crisis, an inability to believe what they are required to continue to preach, on one level or another.
What is your fantasy about why they quit, and why such a high percentage of them do?

 

No you missed the point. The point was in the question... not the answer.

From the ASV:
"Mat 18:21 Then came Peter and said to him, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? until seven times? "

Pathetic try on your part.

 

But none like them from Christ.
I will have no disagreement with you regarding the Old Testament. Very hard to get a warm and fuzzy about it.

 

But if one counts as his brother only those that love him, what is that? Don't the tax collectors do that? Doesn't everyone?
When you have made your enemy your brother, you have started on the path Christ paved.

 

Do you not find it a challenging teaching to treat those who you count as enemies with love?
God knows, I do!
LOL!

 

That passage of scripture does not address 'love'... it only addresses 'forgiveness'. Again you go off on a tangent trying the old bait and switch tactic.

And when you reject the teachings of Christ and walk away from the position to which you were assigned (abandoning your position as a pastor), you have stepped off the path that Christ paved and can no-longer be considered a brother until such time as you have repented (in the true sense of repenting).

 

No one assigned me my position. I pursued it and took it.
Love and forgiveness are closely related in scripture, don't you think? Why would you want to sever the two?
I consider you my brother in the pursuit of an honest faith, though admittedly the angry one we sit at the "other" table at Thanksgiving.
Since judgment is God's and not ours, and it is up to God to separate the sheep and the goats, then all are my brothers and sisters until the competent judge applies his judgment.
It must be an overwhelming burden for you to carry the responsibility of judgment of your fellow man.
Good luck with that. Don't make any mistakes.

 

Then you are now openly admitting that you never had a calling of the Lord to be a Pastor? Interesting. No wonder then you found yourself in a position where you could no-longer believe the things that you were preaching, and how eventually you were able to see the 'enemy in the pews'. The whole congregation became your enemy because you usurped (took it) the position without the calling of the Lord.

Yes! the two go hand in hand: however, when a scripture is severing them and making a distinction between the two, then one who is spiritual will determine that the distinction is made for a reason. I did not sever the two... scripture did.

I meet strangers daily and refer to them as 'brother' acknowledging the mutual membership in the 'brotherhood of natural man', but beyond that the term 'brother' in those meetings does not necessarily have the same meaning as it does when I am speaking of a Brother in Christ. So, yes, in regard to the natural man aspect, we are all brothers and sisters in that natural brotherhood of man. However, that scripture was not talking about the brotherhood of man.

Did you study well while in seminary? Do you not realize and or recognize that Christians do have the authority to Judge All Things (things being such qualities of this world such as behavior).

No great burden at all. Why? Because I don't judge the man, I judge the behavior of the man. And when I speak in those judgments, I speak to the entity that is driving the man to commit such behaviors.

 

Quote your scripture that gives you the authority to be the judge over other men. Are we not all God's children?