Does Israel have the right to exist Part the third!

Because people like you use it to insult everyone who does not hate Jews.

Stating "holohoax" in reference to the fact that not only Jews were murdered, is not as bad as insulting people simply because they don't hate Jews.

If such is the case then why do so many folks use anti-Semitism to insult everyone who does not hate Jews, and shouldn't you be stressing this problem if you believe that anti-Semites are not those who don't hate Jews?

 

It is not insulting to insult everyone who does not hate Jews?

It is a conclusion drawn from the context of your writings. Your position stresses that an anti-Semite is everyone who does not hate Jews, and you apply it in that context.

 

From Woman of Mass Destruction in the previous thread;

Dear WoM

1/ Why call me man? Do you object to being called Woman? Its a short for your internet tag, not a description of your gender - which could be anything. Ill call you WoM from now on if that will suffice.

2/ Words indeed have meanings and definitions. However, we can and do play with them we wish. The english language you should know is in a constant state of flux. Get over it.

3/ The meaning of anti semitism has indeed changed today. For the most part it refers historically to jews in europe. Nowadays however, since jews are no longer persecuted in europe or anywhere really, its meaning has also been broadened by those who use it to encompass the endemic bigotry against semitic peoples across both europe and the middle east. Its no longer the preserve of european jews.

4/ Let us examine Liebe's wiki link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism

See that? Coined by a jewish scholar to describe prejudice against his own people using the supposed inferiority of semitic races, plural. Not singular.

It does say the inferiority of his own semitic race, the jews, it refers to semitism itself. All the races. The fact of its normal european usage referring to jews is neither here nor there. The essential reference of the original coinage by a jewish scholar was to semitic races.

5/ Lastly, both you and Liebe should be ashamed of your work here. the very original intent of those who in the past and now speak and organise against anti semtism in the jewish context is to reject all forms of bigotry.

The fight against jewish anti semitism is but the path to the wider fight against all such base prejudice. That was the original intent of all the millions of people who have opposed bigotry - your silly attempts to restrict the use of a word undermines the cause to oppose bigotry.

 

Please see my comments in bold above.

 

Exactly, well said. This should be posted on the front page of Political Forum, so that everyone can see it and read it whenever they visit the site.

 

Please edit your post or I'll have to report it, since I did not write the bolded text.

 

wow, you are quite a detective! lol

 

And this claim has zero historical validity, as demonstrated by genetic studies among others. Congratulations.

 

Anyway, lol, I am flattered that you guys were so bothered by my posts in the other thread that you had to dedicate an entire first page of this thread to me. I can only offer my condolences if my presence triggered your paranoia - no, I am not paid by anyone, no, I am not someone you know, and I am not your mom spying on your internet activities! I do, however, participate in online discussions quite a lot; and I ended up here because someone recommended this forum to me - someone who is not part of this discussion and has very little interest in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. From my experience, when you start suspecting alterior motives and personalities behind new forum members, it is a sign of too much time spent in the virtual world.

And now to something entirely different!

This is the origin and definition of the term 'antisemitism' I posted in the other thread. You may not like it, but you cannot twist it.

http://anthropologist.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/origin-of-the-word-antisemitism/

 

No, it clearly does not. In fact, every time that you use it you should asked if you are using it in its classical, jewish exclusive , sense. Otherwise there is room for doubt.

 

Oops my apologies - I did'nt notice part 3 already started I've asked admin to removed my post , I'll transfer it here :

-----------
[First of all,for quick reference to previous two parts + discussions - here are the links ]

TO CONTINIUE , any comments on Robert Fisk's questions ?:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StQ22iPtWCA"]Israels Right To Exist? - YouTube[/ame]



cheers.

 

I told you already that you were wrong. If you continue to attempt to distort the facts it will be considered deliberately deceitful. Read;

 

I posted your clip and YOU are being educated on equality. Nothing to flatter yourself about being the ignorance of your posts reflects just that.

no one is paranoid. This forum has evolved to understand and identify a bigot when they appear.

apparently even the person that made the recommendation knows that this place is better than most.

Perhaps you require more schooling on self reflection.

then why would you try to label someone?

funny

did you read the quote?

“The Victory of Jewdom Over Germandom Viewed from a Non-confessional Standpoint,” published in 1873, was the first to insist that, as he put it in a later work: “There must be no question here of parading religious prejudices when it is a question of race and when the difference lies in the ‘blood’.”

In 1873, no one even knew how genetics works.

The article is biased and you are using it as your evidence?

it is like using tale mudd for a history lesson

Your problem is that you are using a biased frame to support your opinion and because it is 'accepted' that you find it natural.

Judaism is a religion. There is no people called Jew.

Anti-semitism is a label by bigots for people who do not believe as they do.

And if geneology is to be used, then we all have our roots from africa (homo sapien).

 

Totally agree. The question 'does Israel have the right to exist?' is moot. It exists. It's right to exist has been established years and years ago. As was the Palestinian state right to exist. Unfortunately, they were never allowed to act on their right; and not by Israel. Between 1948 and 1967 Palestinian territories were occupied by Egypt and Jordan (of course, no one called it occupation back then, because.... I don't know? Maybe because it was acceptable until Israel conquered the territories in 1967? Or maybe because Palestinians neighbors never thought the Palestinian state should exist?). By some divine punishment we came to control the territories in 1967 and have since been accused of not allowing Palestinians materialize their right of self determination. Well, I'm certainly not a supporter of settlements and of many Israeli policies on Palestinian territories; but lets face it, Palestinians sure didn't show much interest in self determination up until 1967.

Now, the new demand from Hamas to recognize the right of Israel to exist is probably silly, but it's not groundless. It has its reason and the reason is that the Arab world has been using Palestinians as a puppet in its goal and the goal was to get rid of Israel. That's why from 1948 and 1967 no one bothered to help Palestinians materialize their right of self determination and the territories were only used as a launching pad to attack Israel.

Israel made a huge tactical mistake by holding on to the territories it conquered in 1967 and made it worse by launching and expanding the settlements. But lets not pretend Israel is the reason the Palestinian state was never established.

P.S. cliff's notes on the Fisk interview. I'm at work and can't watch videos.

 

the motivation could be as simply as being exposed to something that does not fit their accepted beliefs. It would be like reading that the world is round and believing it was flat and labeling the writer as nuts.

I agree

And when idiots post that geneology is the evidence of jews being different is like hilter choosing people based on color.

Lineage markers can be identified to fit what people want to but if geneology is going to be used, then lets get technical. ie..... go into the science section as that is MY favorite subject.

But the idea that because idiots write a paper means it is law is how the ignorant get hooked. Kind of like the gay community beginning to believe that 'sexual orientation' is divergent from gender and still physiological.

 

Bishadi: say no to regurgitation. Back to topic.

 

Such cynicism Judge! I notice our other Hasbarites are now conspicuous by their absence.

 

The truth very often is sickening.

 

Woman ... Can I consider myself an "Anti-semite" while I think get along fine (in the real world ) with most Jewish countrymen , + some diaspora Jews , but have an intense dislike / aversion / to almost all Israeli Jews I've met. . I went on a Holy Land tour land some years ago, and in all honesty found the Arabs - in general far more civil + helpful , , which was perhaps the start of my anti-Israel - anti-Zionists, political stance..

If that makes me an anti-semite , then so be it.

.....

 

I hate saying this but I couldn't care less about your personal semitic experiences. I found the French quite annoying when I was in Paris. I don't go around questioning France's right to exist.

When you folks decide to discuss the topic you so insist to raise again and again - give me a shout. I might still be interested.

 

Zero historical validity , when Art Allm , quoted full references .

Why not address his points ?


.....

 

Hasbara techniques.....

Selective discussion of issues

Challenging the portrayal of an alternative narrative, and attempting to keep the zionist narrative as the dominant one.


The premise of hasbara is that Israel's problems are a matter of better propaganda, and not one of an underlying unjust situation..and as with so much else....the Zionists are wrong.

 

There you go again , grabbing wrong end of the stick.

It seems you've NOT been listening . Did you pay attention to Robert Fisks points in the video I've posted . ?

France has defined borders - Israel DO NOT ?

Why the fek do you think the international community has refused to transfer their embassies to J'Lem ?



...

 

agreed (heck i do believe that is practically my quote on my first post in this thread)

but israel is blocking their 'right' now!

lots of maybes.

But israel did not conquer, it was a 'land grab'. It was against the UN and jeruselem still aint israel, per the world Union.

what divine punishment?

The torah states 'thou shalt not cross this jordan' and if anything, the 'divine' literature of old is representing that the bigots are the oppressors and guess who which whos so happen to be the bad guys?

You aint seen nothing yet as far as punishment.

because them folk were practically peasants. kind of like the indians of north america.

that's a crock.

Hamas was originally a non profit type of organization to feed, cloth and house the widows and children left desolate by the divide.

The zionists are the original terrorist of the divide and always have been

kind of like the wolverines of the movie red dawn.

If i had lived there during the occupation, i would have perhaps done the same thing.

But you wouldnt want me in that fight.

Now that is the best line you have written

yet it is NOW the reason.

And step one is, jeruselem is not israel.

ie.... if the bigots take that mount, you will see ww3

And i aint on either side of that argument.

As far as i am concerned, the whole world would be better if all three horns (religions of abraham) were gone.

 

This Islamic blood lust will cause ww3. These parasitic palestinians need to be thrown out of Israel. Its Israels land. GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!