hairymarx
Last Activity:
Apr 2, 2010
Joined:
Nov 9, 2007
Messages:
2,986
Likes Received:
3
Trophy Points:
0
Birthday:
Jul 3, 1962 (Age: 57)
Location:
global citizen of the world

Share This Page

hairymarx

New Member, 57, from global citizen of the world

hairymarx was last seen:
Apr 2, 2010
    1. moon
      moon
      Merry Christmas.
    2. i.beletesri
      i.beletesri
      Irish Times
      lettersed@irish-times.ie
      February 21, 2008
      Israel and the Palestinians

      Benny Morris:

      Madam, - Israel-Haters are fond of citing - and more often, Mis-citing - my work in support of their arguments. Let me offer some corrections.

      The Palestinian Arabs were not responsible "in some bizarre way" (David Norris, January 31st) for what befell them in 1948. Their responsibility was very direct and simple.

      In Defiance of the will of the International community, as embodied in the UN General Assembly Resolution of November 29th, 1947 (No. 181),
      they launched hostilities against the Jewish community in Palestine in the hope of aborting the emergence of the Jewish state and perhaps Destroying that community.
      But they Lost; and one of the Results was the displacement of 700,000 of them from their homes.

      It is true, as Erskine Childers pointed out long ago, that there were no Arab radio broadcasts urging the Arabs to flee en masse; indeed, there were broadcasts by several Arab radio stations urging them to stay put. But, on the local level, in dozens of localities around Palestine, Arab leaders advised or ordered the evacuation of women and children or whole communities, as occurred in Haifa in late April, 1948. And Haifa's Jewish mayor, Shabtai Levy, did, on April 22nd, plead with them to stay, to no avail.

      Most of Palestine's 700,000 "refugees" fled their homes because of the flail of war (and in the expectation that they would shortly return to their homes on the backs of victorious Arab invaders). But it is also true that there were several dozen sites, including Lydda and Ramla, from which Arab communities were expelled by Jewish troops.

      The displacement of the 700,000 Arabs who became "refugees" - and I put the term in inverted commas, as 2/3's of them were displaced from one part of Palestine to another and not from their country
      (which is the usual definition of a refugee)
      - was not a "racist crime" (David Landy, January 24th) but the result of a national conflict and a war, with religious overtones, from the Muslim perspective, launched by the Arabs themselves.

      There was NO Zionist "plan" or blanket policy of evicting the Arab population, or of "ethnic cleansing". Plan Dalet (Plan D), of March 10th, 1948 (it is open and available for all to read in the IDF Archive and in various publications), was the master plan of the Haganah - the Jewish military force that became the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) - to counter the expected pan-Arab assault on the emergent Jewish state. That's what it explicitly states and that's what it was. And the invasion of the armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq duly occurred, on May 15th.

      It is true that Plan D gave the regional commanders carte blanche to occupy and garrison or expel and destroy the Arab villages along and behind the front lines and the anticipated Arab armies' invasion routes. And it is also true that mid-way in the 1948 war the Israeli leaders decided to bar the return of the "refugees" (those "refugees" who had just assaulted the Jewish community), viewing them as a potential fifth column and threat to the Jewish state's existence. I for one cannot fault their fears or logic.

      The Demonisation of Israel is largely based on Lies - much as the Demonisation of the Jews during the past 2,000 years has been based on Lies.
      And there is a Connection between the two.

      I would recommend that the likes of Norris and Landy read some history books and become acquainted with the facts, not recycle shopworn Arab propaganda. They might then learn, for example, that the "Palestine War" of 1948 (the "War of Independence," as Israelis call it) began in November 1947, not in May 1948. By May 14th close to 2,000 Israelis had died - of the 5,800 dead suffered by Israel in the whole war (ie almost 1% of the Jewish population of Palestine/Israel, which was about 650,000).

      Yours, etc,
      Prof Benny Morris, Li-On, Israel.
      http://www.zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/02/israel-and-palestinians-according-to.html
    3. catawba
      catawba
      thanks, I try, but I'm not as good as you my friend!
    4. i.beletesri
      i.beletesri
      "Anti-zionists but we have nothing against the Jews as such"

      By Steven Plaut

      Say What? Anti-Semites? Who, us anti-Zionists? US? We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers.

      Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Venus and Mars. Night and Day. Trust us.

      Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.
      [.....]

      Naturally, we think that the only people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle East that is NOT a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except Jews, and including even the make-pretend Palestinian "people". But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      [.....]

      We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, free press, or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We think the only conflict on earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      [.....]

      There are Jewish leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic. Not even the ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      [....]

      We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style "bi-national state", although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      We think that Israel's having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag makes it a racist apartheid state.
      We do not think Any other country having an ethnic-religious Majority or having crosses or crescents or "Allah Akbar" on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      [.....]

      We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion in any Arab countries. But we are mad at hell at Israel for violating religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, that's all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

      http://www.freeman.org/m_online/oct03/plaut1.htm
    5. AmusedToDeath
      AmusedToDeath
      Sure, marx :) Anytime you wish to come is fine with me. October is just fine, no problem. After September 9th, I will be free and rockin', so you can choose any date that is acceptable to you :)

      So see you soon in Serbia! Salute!
    6. katiegrrl0
      katiegrrl0
      3000th post and you on my friends list made my day.
    7. katiegrrl0
      katiegrrl0
      That was in the top three posts i have seen on here. You Catawba and TJO have those slots filled. That was very good. i will rep you when I can. It won't let me now.
    8. katiegrrl0
      katiegrrl0
      What a great post on FORGED will rep you when it will let me for that. great stuff on those posts.
    9. katiegrrl0
      katiegrrl0
      thanks for the note I will check it out later. i will pos rep you as well for your part
    10. katiegrrl0
      katiegrrl0
      I have posted several responses and a question
    11. DanteAugustusGermanicus
      DanteAugustusGermanicus
      I see you are an unabashed leftist.

      Chomsky your idol?
  • Loading...
  • Loading...
  • About

    Birthday:
    Jul 3, 1962 (Age: 57)
    Location:
    global citizen of the world
    Family:
    The road to evil is paved with good intentions.
    Gender:
    Male
    humanist and socialist

    travelling, music, cinema, football