Woman Dies in Ireland because of Abortion Ban

Humm, who can say. Providence perhaps.

 

PLease provide the medical proof that lack of an abortion is what caused the septicemia, the blood infection that is the TRUE cause of her death.

Or continue to just makeup whatever bullcrap you need to be true...be thankful that your own mother wasn't as desperate to ABORT YOU, as you are to ABORT OTHER CHILDREN...

 

Do you not consider yourself lucky to exist?

 

I attribute luck less to existing and more to where I exist.

So, for example, I was lucky that I was born in America as opposed to most countries in the world -- since most of the world is comparatively very poor.

Birth itself is a very statistics based thing. People like to use the phrase "the miracle of life." There's really not much miraculous about it when considering that millions of sperm race toward the egg for the sake of fertilization. It's a race that is incredibly hard to lose. The fact that the sperm I came from happened to enter the egg at the right time is an interesting thought, but I don't really view it as luck.

I can say that I'm lucky to have good genes and a good family, but when you mention the luck of my mother being pro-life with her pregnancy, that depends more on her and her situation than a simple choice.

For example, I wouldn't consider myself lucky if I had been born as a crack baby. I think I would definitely prefer not to exist in that situation. The same could be said for a lot of other situations where a woman might consider an abortion. Let's say I would have had some horrible birth defects. If she had decided to abort me because of that, I think that could be considered a merciful thing.

 

Okay then, do you at least feel fortunate to exist?

Birth defects, even if caused by consumption of alcohol or some other substance, is a justifiable reason to have an abortion IMO.

 

The Christian Democratic nature of the state is a common theme in irish jurisprudence, it was most fully articulate in Ryan V AG, no relation,

The preamble is very clear,

Yes, specific mentions of denominations were removed but the state itself remains christian.

 

It's not when you have fetal person hood, it infringes the right to life of the unborn.

 

Sure, we can go with that...

Agreed.

 

That's really weird. So, it's officially Christian, but it's not allowed to fund a specific religion, I guess.

 

Many see the biggest problem Europe faces as their demographic crisis. Only Ireland and France have replacement rate birth rates and Ireland is only just equal to replacement rate. It would be a mistake to go too far with any law changes regarding abortion and join the rest of Europe in that regard.

 

I really hate the idea of snuffing out any unborn human, I really do. But, I don't think it's fair that a couple, or single mother, be forced to care for a highly disabled child, a child they'll likely have to care for well into it's adult years. I wouldn't support the opposite end of the spectrum though... a mandate that fetuses with birth defects must be aborted.

I truly admire parents who keep the child regardless of it's disability, downs syndrome for example.

 

That's what immigration is for. Even America has a relatively low "native" replacement rate despite being less favorable toward abortion overall than much of Europe.

Abortion isn't what causes low birth rates -- it's a natural societal progression as women grow in education and focus more on careers.

 

I agree. I'm very much pro-choice, but that includes letting people go through with the pregnancy even if the fetus is highly deformed.

 

Oh no I'm not talking about severly disabled kids, here you can't have an abortion even when the deformity is so sever that it is incompatible with life i.e. anencephlic you know your baby will die, but you must still carry to term because to abort would infringe its right to life.

 

That's pretty twisted.

I'm assuming euthanasia is highly opposed in Ireland as well.

 

Bring in the right to life of the unborn and you can be raped, by your father, carrying a child that will die anyway and still not qualify for an abortion.

Yes its twisted this whole country is twisted.

Euthanasia doesn't come up much, suicide wasn't decriminalized till 1993.

 

There have been many individuals with disorders who have contributed to society. In fact many inventors have had disorders. During modern times Steven Hawkings comes to mind. Regardless if we start putting values or potential values on peoples lives and considering them "unfit to live" it leads down a dark path in my view.

 

Stephen Hawking didn't develop ALS until he was an adult. It is true that we can now test to see if a fetus carries the genetic markers for certain diseases and disorders, but for the purpose of this discussion, we were mostly referring to visible deformities.

Granted, I'll agree that having a disorder or deformity doesn't rule out the possibility of contributing to society or having a decent life.

 

Society deciding that they have a right to force you to continue with a non viable pregnancy is a darker path in my mind.

 

There are a lot of things I like about Ireland, but yeah, it sounds like some of your social policies are a bit behind ours.

Granted, we're behind on certain other things.

 

This isn't a policy I'd like to see my nation adopt.

In a nutshell, I support abortion provided that it doesn't equate to flushing away a 'mistake', or 'inconvenience'.

 

We don't even know for certain whether an abortion would have actually saved her life.
What if the abortion itself had killed her? Then we would be hearing a whole different news story. Or more likely wouldn't be hearing it.

 

I think the point is that options should at least be more readily available in emergencies.

In a country where abortion is almost completely illegal, it discourages hospitals from using abortion to save a woman's life should it apply.

The hospital itself was basically in a "da**ed if you do, da**ed if you don't" situation. If they had done the abortion without ensuring it was the only option, people could have gone to jail.

 

Maybe its because I grew up in a very catholic household, but I can't reconcile the notion of some abortions being okay but for others the state has a right to compel you to continue.

Till I was 17 a fetus was a baby, it didn't matter how it was conceived it should be loved and cherished, women needed support not abortions. But I saw what having to continue a non viable pregnancy did to a family member. How often my mother was called to help calm her after someone, a well wisher, an acquaintance a friend who hadn't got the memo asked about "the baby" and when it was due and what was its name. That was torture for her, I couldn't see what benefit there was in that. It brought me onto rape and incest and what that must be like.

I can't in good conscience say that I have to right to compel one woman to continue her pregnancy but another should be given an abortion because her reasons are, to me more valid, there are too many who do not consider those to be valid.

I'd put the legal limit for abortion on request at 20 weeks, before viability. And where medically necessary after that if it is the advise of the woman's doctor and she consents. it's to important and too personal for me to attempt to force that on another woman.

 

We know that leaving her for 2 days with an open cervix increased her chance of infection. If the abortion had killed her it would be all over the Irish press we'd never hear the end of it.