Bonds & Clemens may never get into Hall of Fame

He admitted to using roids on national television...where have you been?!

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Direct quote from a juicer, "Without steroids, I would never have made the major leagues."

 

This post is the real joke. To blame baseball writers for the steroid injections that Bonds, etc. engaged in...it's laughably absurd and gives a real insight into liberal "thought".

 

Of course. ANd that's why these steroid guys DON'T HAVE ANY "ACCOMPLiSHMENTS". They have no performance record whatsoever. Really the only thing that can be said about them is the years they played, and what teams they played for. That's it. And that's certainly not enough to put them in the Hall of Fame.

And a guy who should be in the Hall of Fame (and should have been there long ago) is Roger Maris. And about the only drug he took was cigarettes which, if anything, might have lessened his performance.

Roger Maris is my # 1 choice for the Hall of Fame in baseball.

 

If he does, the Hall of Fame is done, and that would truly be a shame for the really great players who are there now.

 

Yes, cheapened....like the Nobel Peace Prize, and legal immigration.

 

This represents the first bright spot I've seen since the election. Character MATTERS and some portion of America recognizes this. Cheating and being a POS human being (Yes, that's you, Barry and Roger) should be sanctioned by society at large. Hit all the HRs and pitch the Ks you want just don't expect me to praise your foul pursuit. You lying sacks of crap deserve repudiation across America. Go screw.

P.S. I quit spending penny one on ML baseball after the 1994 strike. Kiss my ass you union tools.

 

I have a Palmeiro BP HR ball I caught. I imagine I'll roll it out to my grandson during infield practice without comment.

 

I have never been convinced that "PEDs" will make someone a better hitter.

If you take a look at Bonds swing in 1988 and in 2001 you will see what were, in reality, two very different players.

2001 Bonds rarely swung at a bad pitch. Hit 72 HR while striking out only 55 times. The swing speed, which is the major factor in determining how far a baseball will travel, didn't change.

Seriously, if all it took was getting massive to hit HR and bat 350 Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Scott Steiner would hold every major MLB hitting record.

No, the things that make a "great" hitter are not impacted by muscle size. Coordination, eye speed, bat speed, patience, are not improved by PED use.

Bigger factors in the careers of Bonds, McGuire, and Sosa are expansion and new ballparks. Expansion introduced 50-60 pitchers into the major leagues that were really not qualified to be there. Good hitters fed on this weaker competition. You can check the statistics relative to other expansions and see numbers go up. Several of the new ballparks, particularly places like SF, Houston, Baltimore, and Cincinnati were built to hit home runs.

Finally, it can be argued that rather than help his career, steroids actually ended McGuire's career. He retired at 35 and never played more than 100 games after age 32. Many professionals believe the damage to his knee was aggravated by steroid use. If he had been able to play to age 40 playing 130 games per year from age 32 there's every reason to believe he would have finished with over 800 HRs.

Clemens may be a different story. The mechanics of pitching may be helped by PEDs. But, Clemens, to the best of my knowledge, never tested positive and was acquitted of lying about usage. The arguments against him are non-existent.


The hypocrisy of the hall and of the writers who cheered these guys on is a joke.

 

If you cheat and get caught, you take the consequences.

I wonder how many young men got passed over because they did it with their own ability and that just wasn't good enough.

As far as I am concerned the cheaters can go (*)(*)(*)(*) themselves. They are directly responsible for the end of countless promising young baseball careers.

 

Did you really mean to say that
the relatively scrawny Barry Bonds in Pittsburgh, (and weighing all of 180 pounds, possibly) swung at the ball just as hard and fast as the post steroids, bulked up, muscle ladden Barry Bonds in San Francisco?
That defies science and common sense.

'Roided up Barry had the muscle power to treat his bat like a tooth pick and what you claim is traditional power hitters (all large, heavily muscled men, for the most part) hold no advantage over their smaller less powerful teammates when it comes to hitting for distance...and we all know this is absolutely false.

But that's not all it takes. You have to be able to hit a pitch, first of all. And after that the big strong athlete will hit the ball much further and harder than his contemporaries
(who are presumably, not on steroids). False premise equals false conclusion.

But a great hitter on steroids will hit the ball much farther than a great hitter not on steroids. And his bad head speed, recovery from injuries, resistance to fatigue, etc. will all give the PED using hitter a great advantage over the non user.
Have we ever, in baseball history, seen a hitter at Bond's age (in his last few years) actually increase his power output, at an age when every other slugger in history was failing to get around on fastballs and being driven to retirement? NO. Never.
Steroids gave Bonds a freakish advantage and contrast Willie Mays, at the same age Bonds was when he was setting single season records for home runs, struggling to even get a piece of fastballs that he once feasted on.

What expansion would that be? Bonds broke into the majors in 1986. Four teams teams (Colorado, Florida, Arizona and Tampa Bay) came into the league after that and I hardly think they put 50-60 pitchers between them into play.
You greatly inflate the numbers.

This is a better point but still hardly explains how a man was setting records for home runs at the age of forty, when all other hitters in baseball history at that age were either out of baseball
or pathetic shadows of their younger selves. I mean, we know how...steroids.
So to explain away these anomalies with tales of expansion or home run friendly stadiums is ridiculous.

The much greater hypocrisy would be to honor baseball players that gained many of their achievements through the end of a hypodermic syringe. I don't understand a mind that refuses to acknowledge this.

 

Not one player on the HoF ballot got voted in. Craig Biggio with 3060 hits not even voted in, did he use steroids? Mike Piazza not voted in was he found to use steroids?

 

The NFL has a way better drug testing system than baseball.

 

Not anymore

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If people really want to get down to the facts, it was technically never proven in a court of law that Barry or Clemens used steroids. Also, Sosa never tested positive, and there is no other proof he juiced.

 

Do we?

Henry Aaron 6' 180 lbs
Willie Mays 5'10" 170 lbs
Ken Griffey Jr. 6'3" 195 lbs
Frank Robinson 6'1" 183 kbs
Harmon Killibrew 6' 195

None of these men were large or heavily muscled yet all of them hit over 575 HR in their career.

As further demonstration of your ignorance I give you the "Toy Cannon" Jimmy Wynn who, at 5"10" 160 lbs hit 280 HR in 11 years in the Astrodome.

Do you even understand the mechanics of hitting a baseball? Do you understand that power comes, not from the arms, but from the hips and legs? That bat speed is determined not by the size of the batter but by length of the swing and how far the hips open?

From a hitting perspective the only advantages steroids may provide is fast recovery that would keep a player on the field.

 

So...all that is excusnik blather standing up for that POS Bonds? He's garbage. He's a cheat. And he's your man.

There's a lesson there.

 

Baseball should be free of steroids like the NFL.

 

I am sure they feel that way in San Fran considering two rings in 3 years.....

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Neither have Bonds, Clemens, Sosa etc etc etc.

 

Yes there is.

The ignorant should shut up.

 

Steroids was rampant in Football in the '70's but they want you to believe the Steroid era in baseball is new? Never mind greenies were used in every club house. How far back do you want to take out "cheaters" the 50's?

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/sports/baseball/28chass.html?pagewanted=print

 

Let us not forget the doctored baseballs of Ford, Perry, and Drysdale. The razored cleats of Cobb and the doctored bat of Brett.

Yeah, these guys probably took PEDs. But, no one can demonstrate that their performance was elevated because of it and the people in charge didn't just turn a blind eye, they cheered them on.

It is the height of hypocrisy to keep these guys out of the hall.

 

I'm convinced.

Standards of acceptable behavior have no place in sport. I hope my grandchildren lionize the biggest lying POS dirtbag in baseball in 2019.

 

Steve Garvey definitely is being cheated. He was the heart of teams that got into 5 World Series. He hit .338 in the postseason. Players who create championships should be given extra credit. Like Rose and Morgan, he goes to another team and it becomes a champion, a sure sign that Garvey's achievements weren't only because of his great teammates.

But he was cold to the media and had a cold personality. The petty resentment of the media is the real reason Garvey wasn't voted in the first year he was eligible.

 

Yes: he went from lean and wiry to a massive gorilla! He got HUGE!

It did, actually...he also went to a heavier bat.

False. Absurd, actually: fast-twitch muscle speed IS helped by roids. It speeds up a swing.

Except that Sosa (Wrigley) and McGwire (Oakland Coliseum) played most of their careers in OLD parks!

Except that pre-roids, McGwire simply was not a Major League-caliber player. Without steroids, he'd have been out of baseball before age 30.

Wow, talk about willfully ignorant. No intelligent person denies that Clemens cheated.

 

Not all power hitters are gorillas. Offhand: Willie Mays, Ted Williams, and even Yaz weren't that big. (Williams was downright skinny.)

Only other player I can think of that didn't fall off a cliff in his late 30's is Williams. He led the league in batting, hitting an eye-popping .388 at age 39 with an amazing .526 OBP...and was intentionally walked 33 times. Statistically, that season is neck and neck with 1941 (when he hit .406) as the best of his career. His last season (age 43), he hit .316 with 29 home runs.

Not really: that is, at a minimum, 44 pitchers. (Most teams carry 11 on the 25-man MLB roster.) He inflated them, but only a little.

I don't either.

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Pablum. Directly from a juicer, the only reason he managed to stay in the majors was the roids. This is DIRECTLY FROM A USER! Does not get much clearer than that!