For those of you who fear guns.......

Limitations and any form of gun control only effects law abiding owners. They want to ban "assault weapons", even though they are responsible for an extremely low percentage of gun murders, and unheard of in non lethal gun crimes. With such a failure rate that gun control has with reducing the overall crime/murder rate, I think it is time for an exploration of other avenues. Why set up more laws if they are not enforcing the ones already in place correctly?

 

The homicide rate has steadily declined since the inception of the 1989 ban in Australia. Murder rates declined even more sharply.

We're not blaming the tools. We're blaming access to those tools. There are too many guns in the US and they are too easy to acquire.

In most civilized societies, from Japan to Spain, from Canada to France, have preferred to let only the police and military carry guns. Their people are safer and happier without guns.

Take Japan: It had 2 gun murders in 2006, compared to 10,225 in the US.

Japan outlawed guns and dropped their gun-related murder rate to around 0%. How is that not a success?

Rapidly declining? The violent crime rate in the US has actually been rapidly increasing for the past several years.

After the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, the violent crime rate in the US feel sharply for several years. See below.



You say that guns have nothing to do with murder rates, and yet 10,000 people are murdered by guns per year in the US.

 

Why would I be scared of someone with a gun? If they wanted to kill me, they could stab me and slit my throat with a knife. Or come up behind me unexpectedly and suddently break my kneck with a quick twist. The only time I would ever be scared of someone with a gun is if they somehow threatened me to begin with, or if they were trying to rob me.

Maybe we should all be afraid of umbrellas. After all, every umbrella is a potential improvised murder weapon. The KGB used poison tipped umbrellas, and also spring-loaded umbrellas that fired sharp poison pellets up to 2 meters. These can fairly easily be constructed by anyone with improvised tools.

All I am saying is that if someone wants to kill me, they don't need a gun. And spree killings are quite rare. With the vast majority of gun murders, it is just one person being gunned down.

 

"Japan outlawed guns and dropped their gun-related murder rate to around 0%. How is that not a success"?

Japan's "murder" rate dropped in 1876 when samurai were banned from carrying swords.
In japan only the police and the Yakuza, Japan's organized crime syndicate have guns and the police are out numbered by at least 3-1.
In an interview by a French newsman some years back a Yakuza boss when asked by the newsman why they didn't simply take over the government said, "We are in business to make money, the government is a financial failure as are all governments". In the same interview the Yakuza boss also admitted they were behind the gun ban laws in Japan for "our own safety".

Spain, Canada and France are all "democratic" socialist countries. If you like them so much pick one and go live there, we won't miss you.

"You say that guns have nothing to do with murder rates, and yet 10,000 people are murdered by guns per year in the US."

Your numbers are off but lets ignore that for now. The "murder rates" you quote include 'gang on gang' and 'drug dealer on drug dealer' shootings as well as police shootings of suspects and homeowners/law-abiding citizens lawfully defending themselves. The fact is that more murders are committed each year by means other than with firearms. And I won't even get into motor vehicle deaths.


It is a fantasy that gun control laws make society safer.
Gun-a-phoebes like to crow that Australia’s gun ban has made Australia safer, that gun control works. They listen to propaganda and lies from places like the Brady Center.
After 12 months of the Australian gun ban, gun homicides there rose 300%. That is a fact right from the Australian Bureau of Criminology.

17 years after Australia’s gun ban the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged that, “there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime”. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.
Today even Australia's Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that “the gun ban has had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime”.

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease in violent crime; whereas without a gun ban America's rate dropped 31.7 percent. Moreover, Australia and the United States -- where no gun-ban exists -- both experienced similar decreases in murder rates.
Also according to the Australian Bureau of Criminology there has been a steady increase of black market guns into Australia since the gun ban which has been arming more and more criminals with better and better firearms.

The UN victimization statistics solidly back up these figures.
Property crimes didn't increase much if at all after the ban but violent crime victimization increased dramatically. That suggests there weren't a lot more criminals in general, but they felt freer to attack their victims after the ban. The UK had the same experience after their ban, and by 2005 they were the most violent nation in Europe, which is ironic because the low rates of violent crime that the UK had in the early 90s were used to support US gun control back then. But we reduced our gun control and our overall crime rates and gun homicide rates fell while the UK implemented a total gun ban in the late 90s and their crime rates syrocketed.
Today in the UK their crime rate is still increasing and more of their police officers are authorized to carry guns.

There is a clear correlation between gun control laws and violent crime. That is that while guns are restricted and banned from law abiding citizens, criminals are emboldened to prey on more and more of the unarmed because they are easy prey. This will always account for a higher violent crime rate.

 

nice, papadoug

 

Japan has very strict gun control laws that make it almost impossible to get a gun. As a result, gun homicides are almost non existent. They are a good example to follow.

In Japan, you may get hit by a car, you may fall down a stairwell, but you won't get killed by a gun.

Motor vehicles aren't designed to kill many people quickly. Military-style assault weapons with large-capacity magazines are designed to kill many people quickly. Reckless people bring these into their homes. If we're going to try to reduce senseless gun violence, this is an obvious place to start. It was done in 1994 and it was successful.

The Australian Bureau of Criminology, now the The National Center for Policy Analysis has had to change its name because it's a fake blog that has nothing to do with the Australian government. It doesn't even cite its sources (except for a few conservative blogs like FreeRepublic) or do research. You'll have to come up with better sources than that.

The facts are, you're 50% less likely to be killed by a gun in Australia now then in when the Port Arthur massacre took place. This is because of the gun control initiatives.

UK violent crime rates include verbal assault. Despite this, the right loves to throw this statistic around.

Gun homicides in 2010:
Great Britain: . 27
United States: 11,078​

Are you still maintaining that The UK's gun ban didn't work in reducing gun deaths?
Source: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

 

Responsible gun owner do not have accidents with their guns and they don't break the law. Why can't congress figure that out. I have owned guns since 1952 and have never accident show anything or comitted any crimes.

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Responsible gun owner do not have accidents with their guns and they don't break the law. Why can't congress figure that out. I have owned guns since 1952 and have never accident show anything or comitted any crimes.

 

Unfortunately, every gun owner thinks they're responsible. That's part of the problem.

There were 851 accidental gun deaths last year.

Source: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

 

so what else did you want to ban that owners think they are responsible operating yet still cause accidental deaths. I am sure you are far more interested in saving the precious lives of citizens that what actually causes the deaths eh? I'm sure you can come up with many more examples of items that cause accidental deaths than the gun? I have a question, are you willing to ask for a ban on those things that cause accidental deaths, are you seeking a risk free life??

 

There were also 34,767 traffic deaths in 2012. Maybe we should concentrate on ways of making driving safer first huh?

 

No. I just don't like seeing very dangerous objects that are designed to cause harm introduced into society. Military-style assault weapons are designed to efficiently kill people. As you stated, they are involved in accidental and deaths, but also intentional deaths.

We are. We have many regulations for driving. Apparently, we need more. We also need more gun restrictions because they are even more dangerous than cars -- especially in the home.

 

current statistics or is this simply your uninformed opinion?

 

I've stated them many times already. Please read the thread before making accusations.

In the US, in 2011, there were over:
- 11,000 gun-related homicides
- 850 gun-related accidental deaths

Source: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

 

So in NRA terms, 12,850 previously responsible gun owners instantly went insane or became irresponsible gun owners the moment they shot somebody they shouldn't have, since responsible gun owners never do that thing.

 

so 330,000,000 to 850? omg...............we have wasted an entire generation. We are so doomed...........
what a noodge in the wrong direction.....more people killed in household related accidents, farm equipment gone wild, and shark attacks. I know, I know....but if we can save one life, it is worth giving up everything.......moronic idealism

 

Actually, a overwhelming majority of the gun murders were with illegal guns. Only around 2% of guns used in murders are legal or have been stolen from someone who legally owned it.
That number you gave is unrichtig, that is total deaths by guns. That includes justified shootings, like self defense, police shootings and accidents.

 

Quick, sharks have sharp teeth, and there fins give them speed and agility in the water, they have scary features, that makes them assault sharks and they should be banned!

 

What is this?

 

Indeed, what is that?

 

So gun owners are far more responsible that the owners of household cleaners, since there were over 31,000 accidental poisoning deaths in the US in 2009.

They are also more responsible than drivers, since there were over 34,000 vehicle deaths in 2012.

So, I'd say that gun owners are at least more responsible than the general population.

 

Give him some time to come up with a definition of this type of weapon. I am curious and it has piqued my interest to actually hear a concrete definition of a military-style assault weapon. Every answer I get is whishy washy like "designed to kill lots of people quickly" or "fires 60-90 bullets a minute without reloading" or "shoulder thing that goes up."

 

I got to thinking. You haven't been here long enough to have posted much of anything except attacks on lawful gun owners.
How many of these accidental deaths occurred in the home? How many are hunting accidents? How many were children?
How many folks die from other than these strict criteria?
Cars are involved in accidents all the time with some 6,000 teens dying last year and acrewing some 1.5 million dollars plus in additional damage and other deaths while using their (*)(*)(*)(*)ing cell phones while driving. Death by cell phone use while driving is NO accident. It is deliberate and intentional.
but yet you cry havoc for the gun.................... I suppose if I were weak-minded, I could close my eyes to such murder, just like you, and blame the gun for all the other murders by proxy.

 

This is what happens when you get your "facts" from gun hating organizations like "gun policy center".
"Verbal assault"? Are you serious? The gun hating news media has been forced to acknowledge that Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent over 2010, yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. They also acknowledge that while the 2011 gun death rate is encouraging the UK's "overall death rate is still on the increase overall". They also admit that "Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation in the UK".

 

I get my evidence from reliable sources. You got your evidence from a dishonest source that has has an agenda and has been caught lying about who they represent (thus the name change).

Gunpolicy.org gets it's information from the FBI, who in turn gets its stats from reports given to it by each State. Your site gets its 'information' from a conservative blog.

 

Please show me one "attack" I made on any gun owner. You can't because it didn't happen. I just came here for a rational debate. I'm just stating statistics and opinions calmly. You're name-calling and accusing me of all kinds of stuff.

You imply that I'm weak-minded because you lost an argument. Not very mature.