The Resurrection of Jesus - did it really happen?

I've seen videos of that event. I see nothing special happening at all. The most mysterious part of it is what's inside the little cubby hole when the guy reaches in with the candle to light it.

A show like that impresses only the gullible, and religion feeds on & strongly encourages gullibility. Tell those priests you want to set a camera inside that otherwise invisible space to record what's happening during their little farce and see how they react. I dare ya.

 

Here's a good post about it:

http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/q...y-fire-occur-in-a-jerusalem-church-every-year
Wiki states "Once the procession has ended, the Orthodox Patriarch...recites a specific prayer, removes his robes and enters alone into the sepulchre. Before entering the Tomb..., the patriarch is examined...to prove that he does not carry technical means to light the fire." It's one person claiming that spiritual beings are lighting candles. Until they let someone else 1) supply the candles, 2) prepare the location ahead of time, 3) search the conductor, and 4) witness and record all of the event... there will be no reliable positive evidence for this claim. Sick Randi on it. – Hendy Jun 6 '11 at 16:54

Randi being of course James Randi: http://www.randi.org/site/

I can only agree - let Randi check out this supposed miracle. He knows how to deal with these shysters.

 

OK, I will bite...Where is it?

 

Yes, Jesus was very unique in his day. There are no records of the other "messianic" leaders claiming to be God in the flesh, to forgive sins, or to heal people of incurable diseases.

 

The Name "Jesus" is an English transliteration of Yehoshua or Yeshua. So what about that? You can prove that Jesus didn't exist just because the English language didn't exist at that time and his name in the original texts wasn't called "Jesus"?

 

to woody

You’re not even an honest skeptic.

Thomas, the disciple of Jesus was honest, even if he doubted. John and Peter, the disciples of Jesus, were honest. They at least ran to the tomb to see for themselves if it was empty, see John 20:3, 4. They didn’t take at face value what the women said to them. Sir William Ramsay was an honest skeptical archaeologist. Lee Strobel was honest before becoming a believer. That’s what led him to research everything he could find about Jesus Christ and the Bible. www.leestrobel.com

Your arguments don’t have even the most basic common sense. All you have is revisionism and ridicule. And you blindly accept what other atheists are saying, like Dawkins. Some of your co-agnostics quote them as if they were some kind of authority on everything that has to do with understanding reality, history and spirituality or religion. Dawkins is afraid to debate William L Craig, a Christian apologist. This is typical of atheists and other revisionist "experts" who rewrite history.

 

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The so-called Jesus seminar also claimed to do research related to the “historical Jesus”. So what they did is, they discarded almost all the words of Jesus from the Bible. That was the easy way out. And on what did they base their claim that Jesus did not speak those words? Why, on their “expert scholarly” opinion of course! It’s clear that they start out with the preconceived idea that the words of Jesus recorded in the Bible, were attributed to him later. In order to prove that, they would have to have at least one ancient copy of what they claim to be an “original” text without the supposed later additions. They don’t have any.

Some of the naysayers on this site are doing the same thing. They claim the writings of Tacitus or Josephus are interpolations but they are not capable to come up with one single copy that doesn’t contain the supposed interpolations.

So how do you know something has been added to a manuscript when you don’t have the “original” to compare it with?

 

Your blinders cloud your thinking. Christian Revisionists have been at it what thousands of years? Newsflash I am not agnostic as I do not buy into the fairytales as you do.

Common sense! LOL! Your on here trying to prove to the world some concocted god man of whom there is not a SHRED of evidence for actually lived! Pot needs to look at itself before it calls the kettle black.

.....weak minds will succumb to the brain washing sooner or later.

But I see you have nothing to prove this sky boy ever lived so I will continue to keep you on ignore for now.

 

Hmmm... You guys remember when the US dumped OBL's body to the sea to keep it from becoming some kind of holy shrine or whatever?

I wonder if the Romans or the Jewish religious leaders in Jesus' time ever considered the same?

Certainly not trying to compare the two individuals to each other. Just the political possibilities.

 

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The oldest copies of Mark do have the physical resurrection story. The story has the empty tomb but no Jesus wandering around in the flesh talking to people.

Matt and Luke used Mark as a source document so the artistic licence was took hold during the writing of Matt and Luke sometime after the writing of Mark. Matt is thought to have been written (80-100 AD) and Luke (80-130 AD)

The resurrection story from Paul seems to be a spiritual resurrection as described by Paul .. .ok so some folks had some visions.

We also have another Messiah/Christ figure named Simon of Paraea. This fellow was around a few years before Jesus, was killed by the Romans and was believed his followers believed that he had risen from the dead 3 days later. Josephus also mentions this fellow.

There was a strong messianic tradition in the first century AD among the Jews. They were hoping for a leader to restore Israel to its former glory.

In addition to Simon there were 6 other Jewish messiahs mentioned by Josephus in the first century.

We also have the "Sophia" Wisdom of Jesus which was written as early as 50 AD (possibly predating or at the same time as the earliest Pauline writings an before Mark) This records that the resurrection was spiritual.

One of the Josephus passages mentioning the Christ is a known interpolation but it matters not as neither Josephus nor Tacitus mention the resurrection.
Since there were so many Christ's it is hardly surprising to see mention of these in the writings of historians.

 

Political possibility maybe/likely. Thing is understand Jewish burial customs at the time. Now if it is correct that they strung this jesus up for blasphemy which by the way is not breaking any Roman law at the time. But just suppose. One of two things would have happened had it been an actual Jewish burial (1st Century)....he would have ended up in a garbage heap in the street or in what they called The Graveyard of the Condemned. Now if they followed normal Jewish burial practice then the body would laid in a tomb or some other crevice until all the flesh had rotted off the bone. The bones would have then been placed in an ossuary for burial.

 

That would be Ant 18.3.3....some claim the Tacitus passage in Annals 15:44 was forged but Tacitus was only repeating what he heard and only mentioning christians being in Rome at the time.

 

Since there were so many Messiah's in the early first century it makes perfect sense that one of them started Christianity. This fellows name may have even been Yeshua ( Giving the name Joshua to a Messiah would make sense as he was a great military leader ... one of the few in the history of Israel who managed to worship this YHWH fellow)

Tacitus only mentions (Christos) so we do not know which Christos he is referring to but he does mention Pilate. This means little other than there was some fellow by the name of Pilate that killed one of the Messiahs. (Tacitus does not tell us how the man died)

 

There were many jesus yes..christ is a title not a name.

http://jesusneverexisted.com/surfeit.htm

The rest your playing straight into the hands of who knows what. Pilate though most likely real was inserted to make the fable more solid so to speak. Fact is there is nothing in Antiquity that proves the god man of the christian faith ever lived his only so called history only exist in the NT and even that is suspect written far to long after the said events to even be considered no more that a Secondary Source (hearsay.)

 

Why don't you ask the Turkish family who has been holding the keys and opens the doors for centuries, as well as the Israeli guards who are there to protect the crowds? In one of the videos, a guard is staring at the flame as it's being held beneath a person's hand without burning. According to testimonies, candles outside the sepulcher light up at the same time the light emanates through the walls and door of the sepulcher, as well as flashes of light. Quite a trick, isn't it?

 

Unless of course you have a rich friend and disciple named Joseph of Arimathea who might perhaps grease a few palms and obtain the corpse for burial in his own private tomb??!!

Now that I have read this book I have hope that it will not be long before I can be both a Christian as well as a Noahide!

At this time if somebody believes that Rabbi Jesus/Yehoshua was raised from the dead......you are not real popular in Noahide groups but Bruce Fraser MacDonald Ph. D's NDE account may pave the way for that to change. Begin reading at page 140....and you will see what I mean!!!!


http://books.google.ca/books?id=kbi...a=X&ei=bPByUcGhKMe0qgGhnoDABA&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAw
The Thomas Book Near Death, a Quest and a New Gospel by the Twin Brother of ...
By Ph D Bruce Fraser MacDonald

 

Wasn't dumping his body in the ocean in accordance with Muslim beliefs somehow? It that's true, then the reason for doing that would be to avoid Muslim backlash.

 

Yes, the Resurrection did happen. I'm not sure if the explanation of William Lane Craig had already been posted, but here it is.


[video=youtube;JYdzUYyIKMM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYdzUYyIKMM[/video]

Furthermore, the attitude of the Apostles after the Resurrection was quite different from their attitude before the death and Resurrection of Jesus.
Before His death, His disciples couldn't really quite understand what Jesus was on about when He prophecied about His death and Resurrection.
After His Resurrection(and His appearance to them), they were brimming with confidence and proceeded to boldly spread the Gospel. All of them except one died as martyrs.

Right after the death of Christ, His disciples hid themselves in fear of being rounded up.
After His Resurrection, they preached without any fear.

Saul of Tarsus was a non-believer in Christ as the Messiah, and he actively persecuted Christians. Jesus appeared to him, and he ended up being a disciple. He became the Apostle Paul, who preached to the gentiles. He died for Christ.

 

Another evidence for the Resurrection would be from Simon Greenleaf - one of the principal founders of Harvard Law School, and a world-renowned expert on evidence. He was an atheist. Goaded by his students to consider the evidences for the Resurrection, he set out to debunk it, only to end up being convinced, converting to Christianity, and writing an apologetic essay titled, Testimony of the Evangelists Examined by the Rules of Evidence Administered in Courts of Justice.

More...
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/greenleaf.html

 

The Saul/Paul thing was a vision....

Really? Inconsistencies in the stories say otherwise. This story like the others in the life of this myth was made up.

Confounds me that you make this absurd statement basing it on the opinion of one person. Typical jesus freaks.

 

So because he is a legal scholar with no background in theology other than opinion he's right?

How many people came to the tomb?

Matthew says 2.
Mark says 3.
Luke says 4.
John says 1.

Don't sound to me like eyewitness testimony.

Who were they?

Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matthew. 28:1)
Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Salome (Mark. 16:1)
Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, Joanna and other woman (Luke
Only Mary Magdalene came to the tomb (John. 20:1)

Agian inconsistencies make it doubtful any of them were there.

Was the stone removed when Mary arrived at the tomb?

NO – After Mary arrived at the tomb, an angel rolls back the stone. (Matthew. 28:1-2)
YES – When they arrived, the stone had already been rolled away. (Mark. 16:4)
YES – When Mary arrived, the stone had already been taken away. (Luke. 24:2)
YES – When Mary arrived, the stone had already been taken away. (John. 20:1)

With no life history prior to being strung up on a stick and with the already invention of his entire life by the church there is no forensic, documentary or archeological evidence to prove anything in the life of this myth.

http://www.rejectionofpascalswager.net/paganrising.html

 

Let me give the referral verses:

Mark 16:1
Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

Luke 24:10
It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them, who told these things to the apostles.

Matthew 28:1
Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

John 20:1-9
Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!”
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter came along behind him and went straight into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head. The cloth was still lying in its place, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.) 10 Then the disciples went back to where they were staying.

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/rezrvw.html

As you can see from John's account - the reaction of the Apostles upon being told the body of Christ was taken away - that they ran to the site, surely there was no time to devote doing a head count of the women, let alone take down names who were actually there! Does it matter really how many women were there....does it change the fact that the Body was missing?

http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_tomb.html

 

An angel could easily roll that heavy stone ....but again, does it really matter? Even in our modern time, multiple witnesses to a crime that are interviewed right after the crime occurred, tend to give their account with some levels of variations from each other, although they witnessed the same thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_memory

Who do you think we should believe when it comes to evidences?
Simon Greenleaf - a world-renowned expert on evidences ( a principal founder of Harvard Law School), or an ex-Christian's research of what he claims to be, "fruits" of his intellectual journey?

Take into heavy consideration that Simon Greenleaf had deliberately set out to disprove the Resurrection. He did not only get convinced about it, he publicly admitted to his findings, AND CONVERTED. AND became a Christian apologist.
I would say getting convinced would be an understatement. He was bowled over!


Btw, I posted my reply about the numbers of women present at the tomb....it's being reviewed by the moderators since being new to this site, it's just my second post. It'll probably come a little bit later.

 

So Forensic, Documentary or archeological evidence please. Proving the Bible with itself proves nothing. Who else outside the Bible witnessed it? Your purporting the same weak arguments I do not have time for this.

 

Outside the Bible? You mean people not mentioned in the Bible? The Bible is the primary source.

Just watch the preceding "Case For Resurrection" video by William Lane Craig please.