Chomsky on Zionism: "CHOMSKY: I was connected to a considerable part of the Zionist movement which was opposed to a Jewish state. It's not too well known, but until 1942 there was no official commitment of Zionist organizations to a Jewish state. And even that was in the middle of World War II. It was a decision made in the Hotel Biltmore in New York, where there was the first official call for a Jewish state. Before that in the whole Zionist movement, establishing a Jewish state was maybe implicit or in people's minds or something, but it wasn't an official call. "The group that I was interested in was bi-nationalist. And that was not so small. A substantial part of the Kibbutz movement, for example, Hashomer Hatzair, was at least officially anti-state, calling for bi-nationalism. And the groups I was connected with were hoping for a socialist Palestine based on Arab-Jewish, working-class cooperation in a bi-national community: no state, no Jewish state, just Palestine." http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20111107.htm
Hang on just a minute. We did not give Palestine to Jewish settlers. The Jewish national fund bought the land from the Arabs in fact it was one of the principal causes over the Arab revolt due to many Fellahin being unable to work.
Jewish National Fund: "The Jewish National Fund (Hebrew: קרן קימת לישראל, Keren Kayemet LeYisrael) (abbreviated as JNF, and sometimes KKL) was founded in 1901 to buy and develop land in Ottoman Palestine (later British Mandate for Palestine, and subsequently Israel and the Palestinian territories) for Jewish settlement. "The JNF is a quasi-governmental, non-profit organization.[1][2] By 2007, it owned 13% of the total land in Israel..." The colonial aspect seems to arise from JNF's stated mission to privilege Jew over all others in its distribution of resources: "The JNF stipulates that only Jews can buy, mortgage or lease JNF land. "Article 23 of the JNF lease states that the lessee must pay compensation to the JNF if this stipulation is violated..." "The JNF is not the trustee of the general public in Israel. Its loyalty is given to the Jewish people in the Diaspora and in the state of Israel... The JNF, in relation to being an owner of land, is not a public body that works for the benefit of all citizens of the state. "The loyalty of the JNF is given to the Jewish people and only to them is the JNF obligated. The JNF, as the owner of the JNF land, does not have a duty to practice equality towards all citizens of the state." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_National_Fund#Leasing_policy_controversy
Good readers, a second reason that I deleted the remainder was because Farah, this so-called expert, soon goes on the try a slight of hand-trick that the Arabs population of Jerusalem had more Jews in it than Arabs and used this to try to convince us that the same must have been true for all of Palestine!!! What juvenile logic!! , No, in fact it is not juvenile. My 10 year old grand-daughter was not fooled either. EXPERT!!! And the third reason is that this touted expert ignores the Ottoman census; he ignores all the work of the foremost demographers on the period --- Rupin, McCarthy, Beinin & Hajar. He cherry picks the data of Bachi (check here: http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm) on Jerusalem but then deliberately avoids pointing out that the same Bachi concluded that in 1893 there were 489 000 Palestinian Arabs in the territory versus 42 000 Jews and has the bared-faced temerity to report to us that "The Arab population of Palestine was historically extremely low -- prior to the Jews' renewed interest in the area beginning in the early 1900s". So, HB, yet another one of your so-called experts has been proved to be a slick-tongued liar; a distorter of the record; a fanatic nationalist who perverts the recorded facts in an attempt to put a gloss on the Zionist .... uhm .... forum rules prevent completion. HB, doesn't it bother you when these STRAWMAN insertions of yours are proved in short order to be easily discardable? Does it not embarrass you?
Pro-Consol, there is a difference between property ownership and national sovereignty. There are vast numbers of Brits owning properly o the Costa Blanca in contiguous belts, all bought perfectly legally. The same in the Dordogne in Midi-Pyrenees in France. Does this allow them to demand two new counties of the UK there?
And they sure did a wonderful job - A lovely green oasis in the middle of a Muslim Arab desert. And the Arab moanings plus Jealousy continues..........
That's my exact point. And no I did not advocate that because land was bought legally in Palestine that a state should be formed. I think you've misinterpreted my statement. It's to ensure historical accuracy rather than to exercise a "stealth opinion". And please do not assume me to be a misinformed in regards to the relationship between the state and the people.
And they did it in 1948 by establishing an unusual distinction between "citizenship" and "nationality." Why is it all Israelis qualify as "citizens" of Israel, yet the state is defined as belonging to the "Jewish nation", which means not only the 5.6 million Jews living in Israel but also more than 7 million Jews worldwide? "Critics say the special status of Jewish nationality has been a way to undermine the citizenship rights of non-Jews in Israel, especially the fifth of the population who are Arab. "Some 30 laws in Israel specifically privilege Jews, including in the areas of immigration rights, naturalization, access to land and employment." http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/cook060410.html
AS an Israeli Arab you should thank Alla or Jesus that you live in Israel. Israel is ( unfortunatly ) the BEST place in the world for Arabs. Now regarding to your "not acurate" info - Arabs have much much more access to land their... i'm sure you know the Bedouin in the south whom occupied millions of acres , also you are familliar with many Arabs who illegaly build big houses on massive lots in the north . All of that while the stupid succers ( Jews ) are crowded in small areas and in tall buildings. Employment - If an Arab wants a job - he can work. Even Goverment companies advertise Ads with a message "preference to minorities" .. Your coffee shops are packed !! You are the No. 1 Mercedes Benz customers !! Your malls are prosperous. Look what's happening to your "brothers and sisters" ALL AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST !! Arabs are killing Arabs by the thousands. Ungrateful !!!
Look at those two laws privileging Jew over Arab, the Law of Return for Jews and the Citizenship Laws for Arabs. What kind of democracy divides its citizens into two kinds?
Now that I have your attention... Let me post FIVE clips for your education ONLY! Battlefield Detectives - Israel's six Day war Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKbDWWRSIzA&list=PLoHIx-8qk0yCaEN3hBkZjYzjKxy8HNcmu Part2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1JbNZ0K0Es&list=PLoHIx-8qk0yCaEN3hBkZjYzjKxy8HNcmu Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3liIv9oHdw&list=PLoHIx-8qk0yCaEN3hBkZjYzjKxy8HNcmu Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmMQ3Se1XRM&list=PLoHIx-8qk0yCaEN3hBkZjYzjKxy8HNcmu Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GOGpyxCnGY&list=PLoHIx-8qk0yCaEN3hBkZjYzjKxy8HNcmu --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My friend not all Arabs are Israeli citizens... nearly less of one million are squatters who came on the wake of the Jordanian Army led by British Officers in 1947/8 and installed themselves in Judea and Samaria (the west Bank) they are holding IDs and Passports of Jordan... If these people would return back home... Israel would manage the situation quite well with its Israeli Arab citizens.
Georgephillip, In 1961 Erskine Childers advised that all Zionist claims should be checked for their truthfulness / verifiability. Lets apply that to this claim of mass immigration into Palestine in 1947/48, shall we?: To do so in an honest fashion, we need to find good data. a) Table 3 from the reference http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm seems to fit the bill perfectly for the pre-1947 years. It tells us that in 1945 there were 1 230 401 (1 076780 Muslims plus 153 621 Christians) in Palestine. At the 2.5% natural growth rate that was typical for Palestinians during the 1940s, this figure should have become 1 325 007 by 1948 b) Regarding the actual numbers in 1948 (including the refugees) there is a section in the cited reference dedicated to a summary of pertinent publications. McCarthy (including work by Bachi) estimates the number of Arab Palestinians in Palestine in 1948 at 1 358 000. The 1948 number of 1 358 000 is virtually identical to the 1 325 007 obtained by applying an annual 2.5% growth to the 1945 figure (1 230 401 increased by 2.5% for 3 years). According to HBendor Palestine received 1 million squatters during the same period. This is clearly not supported by real figures . and that is putting it politely, since it would mean that the 1948 Palestinian Arab population should have been in the order of 2 300 000. The 1 million new squatters is clearly a MYTH. So, HBendor, you have been caught out yet again offering fictitious data to explain the growth in Palestinian numbers. This is the third occasion on which you have been shown to have been "over-inventive".
HB, you are too kind and polite. Israeli arabs will make excellent addition to the new palestine in Jordan. As they say in London - Inshalllllah
Even if your allegation of "one million...squatters" were true, and it appears from Klipkap's numbers it is not, what of the two generations of Arabs born and bred on the West Bank since 1947? Would you care to share your choice for Greater Israel's eastern border?
At least the "Founding Fathers" of Zionism were honest regarding their intentions in Palestine: "The Iron Wall "We cannot offer any adequate compensation to the Palestinian Arabs in return for Palestine. And therefore, there is no likelihood of any voluntary agreement being reached. So that all those who regard such an agreement as a condition sine qua non for Zionism may as well say 'non' and withdraw from Zionism. "Zionist colonisation must either stop, or else proceed regardless of the native population. Which means that it can proceed and develop only under the protection of a power that is independent of the native population – behind an iron wall, which the native population cannot breach. "That is our Arab policy; not what we should be, but what it actually is, whether we admit it or not. What need, otherwise, of the Balfour Declaration? Or of the Mandate? Their value to us is that outside Power has undertaken to create in the country such conditions of administration and security that if the native population should desire to hinder our work, they will find it impossible." http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/ironwall.html
They still are. They are building a beautiful oasis in the middle of a dark Muslim desert. As an Israeli arab you should respect them, join them, allthough most of you are fifth column
Hasbara? "While hasbara literally means 'explanation', its exact import in its current usage is debated. "Gideon Meir has said that there is no 'real, precise' translation of the word hasbara in English or any other language, and has characterized it as public diplomacy,[7] an action undertaken by all governments around the world with the growing importance of what Harvard professor Joseph Nye termed soft power. "Gary Rosenblatt describes it as 'advocacy'.[8] "Hasbara has been described as 'pro-Israel propaganda,'[9] but while 'propaganda strives to highlight the positive aspects of one side of a conflict, hasbara seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified.'[10] "Historian Giora Goodman considers 'hasbara' to mean 'propaganda' in practice, explaining "The term 'propaganda' acquired a pejorative sense during the first half of the twentieth century. "Accordingly, British and American propagandists used 'information' to describe their work and the positive-sounding word hasbara has generally been preferred in Hebrew. "'Propaganda', ta’amula in Hebrew, is mostly reserved for what opponents do, but the term was often used by the Zionist movement to portray its own efforts to influence mass audiences." How do you explain the Zionists' actions in Palestine over the last century without justifying colonization?
Israelis do not have to explain nada to nobody. Especially not to fifth column arabs who eat and drink from the land of milk & honey and then spit at her.. The palestinian moaning Nazi propaganda will not help you. The Arab countries and even the Arab leauge are FED UP with the palestinians.
This is unadulterated Zionist BS. There is archeological evidence that "Palestine" belonged to people, including the Egyptians, before any "Jewish" archeological evidence appears. There is archeological evidence of the Italians (Roman) occupying the land. Certainly the archeological evidence over the past 1200 years or so reflect that it was predominately Arab lands. The "Jewish" occupation in "Palestine" was a relatively short period of time historically and most abandoned Palestine during or soon after Roman rule. The "Jewish" occupation of Palestine had a beginning and it had an end and all of this was about 2,000 years ago and has no relevance today. If we want to address what is "Palestine" then we must look directly at the League of Nations Covenant specifically the following from Article 22 which addressed the former territory controlled by the Turkish Empire. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/leagcov.asp#art22 While I personally believe the selection of the British to be the "Mandatory" over anything they were assigned this role and responsibility under the League of Nation's authority. In fulfilling this role and responsibility, based upon this last cited paragraph they divided their Mandatory into two political entities "where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized" by the League of Nations. Transjordan was created as a provisionally recognized nation based upon wishes of the communities that were encompassed within its territorial boundaries, Transjordan was established based upon the Right of the People to Self-Determination. At the same time Palestine was also created based upon the will of the people living within it's territorial boundaries in accordance with the League of Nations Covenant Article 22. It wasn't created based upon the will of European Jews as they didn't live in the land of "Palestine" when it was created. It wasn't created as a "Jewish homeland" but instead was created based upon the will of ALL the People living in Palestine at the time of the division that resulted in the creation of Transjordan and Palestine under the "Mandatory" authority of the British administration. Palestine was established based upon the Right of the People to Self-Determination. These divisions into Transjordan and Palestine had absolutely nothing to do with European Jews as the European Jews had no "Right of Self-Determination" in either Palestine or Transjordan. As noted though the British, IMHO, were probably the worst possible selection to be the Mandatory over anything. Their history of "Colonialism" that was highly racist for hundreds of years argued against them having any authority to administer any territories outside of Great Britain. The British certainly didn't have the "authority" to violate the Right of Self-Determination of the "Palestinian People" that included Arabs, Jews and Christians that were the residents and citizens of Palestine when the British assumed Mandatory authority over the region. The British Mandate for Palestine was a direct violation of the Right of Self-Determination of the Palestinian People which is why I've often referred to it as being the second worst document of the 20th Century (the first being the Treaty of Versailles in 1919 that many historians cite as being the primary reason behind the rise of the Nazis in German, WW II, and the Holocaust).
Oh please.. You don't speak for Arabs. http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm The Atlantic Monthly July 1920 Zionist Aspirations in Palestine by Anstruther Mackay
Some Israeli Jews need to come out from behind Golda's skirts and face their crimes in Palestine: "But the Syrian province of Palestine, about one hundred and fifty miles long and fifty miles broad, largely mountainous and sterile, contains at present (1920) a population of more than 650,000, divided as follows: Mohammedan Arabs, 515,000; Jews, 63,000; Christian Arabs, 62,000; nomadic Bedouins, 50,000; unclassified, 5000. "Of these the Mohammedans and Christians are to a man bitterly opposed to any Zionist claims, whether made by would-be rulers or by settlers. "It may not be generally known, but a goodly number of the Jewish dwellers in the land are not anxious to see a large immigration into the country. "This is partly due to the fear that the result of such immigration would be an overcrowding of the industrial and agricultural market; but a number of the more respectable older settlers have been disgusted by the recent arrivals in Palestine of their coreligionists, unhappy individuals from Russia and Roumania brought in under the auspices of the Zionist Commission from the cities of Southeastern Europe, and neither able nor willing to work at agriculture or fruit-farming." http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/unbound/bookauth/zionism/mackay.htm
They do not have to explain nada to nobody. Palestinian Bedouin are the criminals in that never ending story.
